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Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

Discussion of the symbolism, history and how to read with the Marseilles
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Diana
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Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

Post by Diana »

There are numerous theories about what the character and lion on the Strength card represent. Like Heracles and the Nemean lion - but then why is Strength depicted as a woman ? Some people have gone so far as to suggest Mithra and his bull - although again, Mithra was male and a bull is not a lion so I think that's pushing things a bit far. But who knows ? Mithraism was a very popular religion and if it hadn't been for the decision to make Christianity the official religion of Rome, we'd maybe have Mithraic temples everywhere instead of churches.

There is one theory that is very little spoken about, although it has been evoked. I'm just surprised that it isn't more widely spoken of.

The Acts of Paul and Thecla is one of the documents in the New Testament aprocypha. It was a hugely popular story in early Christianity and spread very wide. There was definitely a very widespread Cult of Thecla in the early days of Christianity. It started out in the Syria region, spread through Palestine and down to Egypt where it became very popular too.

Thecla was a young woman, a virgin, promised to one of the richest men in her town. One day, she heard Paul preaching his doctrine of celibacy (although he was not as fanatical about this as Peter - Paul does not expect everyone to be celibate). As far as I understand it, this had nothing to do with what in modern fundamentalist Christianity implies that sex is "dirty" in our modern sense. It was I believe a theological issue. The goal is resurrection. The cycle of life goes as follows : sex, birth, death, decay; sex, birth, death, decay, and again and again. There is no hope of resurrection because the earthly mortal cycle just gets repeated. The only way to stop this is to stop the first procedure, i.e. sex. After the death, would then no longer be decay but resurrection.

Now more and more women were refusing to have sex or to get married after listening to Paul preaching or hearing about it. This really annoyed the men. I mean, really really really annoyed them. The women I imagine were just happy to get out of the patriarchal oppressive system and to stop being baby factories (one must remember how many women died in childbirth and all the babies that died as well). It wasn't the most exciting prospect for many women. Someone who gave them a theological reason for escaping all this, must have been very appealing to them.

So Thecla got into a quite a lot of trouble. First, they tried to burn her at the stake for refusing to marry her promised one on the grounds that she would refuse to consummate the marriage. But a thunderstorm came to her rescue and put the fire out and she escaped. Later, another rich man fell in love with her (she had by then started following Paul and became his faithful disciple) and she ripped his clothes off in public and humiliated him. For this she was once again judged, and this time it was that she was to be eaten by lions in an arena. Thousands of people came to watch - the women were on her side, the men on the other.

A lion and two lionesses were released. When the lion wanted to attack her, the two lionesses lay down in front of her and protected her and fought off the lion.

Now why wouldn't Thecla be the person depicted in the Strength card ? This cult of Thecla has disappeared today probably due to the fact that the Church leaders suppressed this document. The story is quite well related in the History Channel documentary "Unexplained Mysteries of the Bible" from about the minute 8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5-JxX_CGDk


In the Eastern Church, the wide circulation of the Acts of Paul and Thecla is evidence of her veneration. She was called "Apostle and protomartyr among women" and even "equal to the apostles." She was widely cited as an ascetic role model for women. Her cult flourished particularly at Seleucia (one site where she was said to be buried), Iconium (present day Konya), and Nicomedia. The cult also appeared, at least as early as the fourth century, in Western Europe.

The fact that she had been protected by lionesses impressed people quite a lot. It was sort of considered a miracle.

The wiki article is here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Paul_and_Thecla

I read somewhere or heard somewhere that there is a theory that the Acts of Paul (also apocrypha) were maybe written by a woman... in which case it would be Thecla it is supposed. If chicscotheque is reading this thread, perhaps he would have heard of this and if so, I wonder what his views are.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

Post by Diana »

I just want to add that one of the interpretations of Strength XI is one of the suppression or control of one's animality - and one's sexual desires. It's often pointed out that the lion is held close to the genitals of the woman - the physical seat of sexual desire. Which would fit in with the Thecla theory.

Force XI grimaud.png

(Paul himself talks of a lion in his letter to Timothy : And I was delivered from the lion’s mouth. I assume here he's speaking figuratively of all the dangers he'd faced - I don't remember him being thrown to any lion. One scholar suggests he may be referring to Nero.)
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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Diana wrote: 08 Feb 2020, 12:20
I read somewhere or heard somewhere that there is a theory that the Acts of Paul (also apocrypha) were maybe written by a woman... in which case it would be Thecla it is supposed. If chicscotheque is reading this thread, perhaps he would have heard of this and if so, I wonder what his views are.
i have read about thecla here and there Diana, but by the sounds of it you know about as much as i know about her, if not more. i would note that part of her story was she was desperate to be baptised and, facing death, had to do it herself by jumping into a lake. in the lake were (apparently) vicious sea-calves or seals - i would point out they could've been sea lions. while it's odd to think of this card, normally associated with the fire of Leo, with anything to do with water, female energy is symbolically itself water and the first appearance of leo indicated the flooding of the nile (according to pliny)

it's quite possible that for the image and character of the force card, thecla was used as a model. in that way, she is symbolic of what the card represents, which is not to suggest the card represents her per se. similarly, her story is itself highly allegorical, and she represents the christian martyr generally - she was important in the Acts of the Martyrs and her story was well known and retold for centuries. of course, not only does she represent all christian martyrs, but specifically female ones, such as perpetua and eugenia and on up to teresa of avila and mother teresa. why is she specifically female? in part because she is the other side of the magician coin - he 1, she 11. that's a discussion in and of itself, but i would point out that his energy is above the waist, with the table hiding things below, while her energy harnesses what is below the waist - or wait, is it the other way around? strength's particular distribution may suggest the sphinx, with the body of a lion and the head of a woman. as mentioned above, the flooding of the nile was an important event and occured at the meeting of leo and virgo.

a couple thoughts on the strength card: she has 6 toes; some claim the magician has 6 fingers. her hat has six teeth, like the 6 teeth of the lion.


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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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chiscotheque wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 02:47
i have read about thecla here and there Diana, but by the sounds of it you know about as much as i know about her, if not more. i would note that part of her story was she was desperate to be baptised and, facing death, had to do it herself by jumping into a lake. in the lake were (apparently) vicious sea-calves or seals - i would point out they could've been sea lions. while it's odd to think of this card, normally associated with the fire of Leo, with anything to do with water, female energy is symbolically itself water and the first appearance of leo indicated the flooding of the nile (according to pliny)
Yes, she baptised herself. Apparently Paul refused to baptise her. So she flung herself into a sort of pond where these deadly sea lions were, but before she jumped in, a bolt of lightening struck the water and killed them all. Baptising oneself must have been considered a very heretical act. This was just after the lionesses protected her. The pond or whatever it was must have been part of the show in the arena.

why is she specifically female? in part because she is the other side of the magician coin - he 1, she 11. that's a discussion in and of itself, but i would point out that his energy is above the waist, with the table hiding things below, while her energy harnesses what is below the waist - or wait, is it the other way around? strength's particular distribution may suggest the sphinx, with the body of a lion and the head of a woman. as mentioned above, the flooding of the nile was an important event and occured at the meeting of leo and virgo.

a couple thoughts on the strength card: she has 6 toes; some claim the magician has 6 fingers. her hat has six teeth, like the 6 teeth of the lion.

Yes, the Bateleur/Magician and Strength are pairs. I also brought up their connection once through Egyptian mythology - Ptah and Sekhmet.

As to the six toes, this was discussed a while ago on this thread : La Force XI and its weirdness : viewtopic.php?f=128&t=1783&hilit=Streng ... +weirdness. It led us on to giants and all sorts of interesting things. It was a very interesting thread. And I mentioned in that thread the lion's teeth that I believe as you observed too are on her hat. I think she's removing his teeth. No-one took me seriously except me. And I've never seen it mentioned anywhere in any book or anything or seminar or TdM course. I was annoyed that no-one took me seriously. Well, not seriously annoyed, but I thought it was a very clever observation myself. Just because it's never been mentioned in a book by some self-appointed TdM expert, doesn't mean it's not serious. Same with Ptah and Sekhmet. No-one paid attention, but I swear to God there's a link. Even if it is fortituous or part of the Zeitgeist. Egyptian mythology was not really that well known at the time in the region of the TdM I think. So it's probably more to do with synchronicity. The thread in which I wrote about it is here viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1459&p=7926&hilit=sekhmet#p7926. It was one of my early contributions to the forum when I was still trying to find my feet here.

I've never noticed that the Bateleur may have six fingers. Where did you get that from ?

As to harnessing above and below the waist, in one of the TdMs, I can't remember offhand which one now, the Bateleur is clearly holding a penis in his hand and not a magic wand or a stick. There is no ambiguity. I'll try and find it. But if _R_ pops in, he'll know exactly which one it is. Because he knows everything. He's sort of a TdM walking encylopaedia.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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Diana wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 17:59
I've never noticed that the Bateleur may have six fingers. Where did you get that from ?
i can't remember - i read it somewhere. to my mind, there's simply a gap between fingers and not an actual 6th finger, but you know has persnickety some tarot people get. but doing a simple google search i found this example, where he seems to have 6 fingers on his left hand:
lebate-flam.jpg

in jungian terms, of course, since leo is a male sign and the lion is arguably male rather than female (as it has a mane), the woman is assimilating or taming her Animus.

i'm not so well-versed in egyptian myth either, but i'll look into Ptah and Sekhmet. i think the idea that she has removed the lion's teeth is a good one - like de-clawing a cat, or more aptly making a necklace or charm from a wild animal's teeth as a sign of power and dominance - a common practice among primitive people and even us moderns. the teeth on the hat also suggest a mouth open to god. in hebrew, the 11th letter is kaf, the pictograph of which is a crown - which is what the teeth on the hat look like (i'm reminded of thecla knocking off the would-be rapist's coronet. that aspect of the story, by the bye, reminds me of Marina's capture and placement in a brothel in Shakespeare's Pericles. the story actually dates back to before Christ). kaf means the palm of the hand (cf. the magician's palming and perhaps heavy petting? [viz. his aloft penis]) and suggests the hand of god in our lives. kaf begins the words "potential" and "actual" in hebrew, suggesting the latent power of the spiritual made manifest in the physical. the gematria of kaf is 20, which reduces to 2, partnering it with the magician, just as 1+1 suggests 2 and the obvious connection between the magic of the inner made outer mentioned above. in genesis, when sarah dies, there is a small kaf which signifies that man (here, abraham) should not grieve too greatly the dead since they live on in heaven with god. similarly, the sphinx was a goddess who safeguarded pharaohs in the afterlife.


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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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As far as the six fingers (Bateleur) are concerned, this is an interesting point.

The finger ambiguity is not the preserve of one deck alone: it is to be found on a whole stack of different decks.
https://www.tarot-de-marseille-heritage ... llery.html

Look at the left hand of the Bateleur, the ring and little fingers, to be specific, following the chronological order in which the decks are presented. One will note that what begins as a space between those fingers gradually ends ups looking suspiciously like an extra finger (Burdel and Conver decks especially).

The deck in which the Bateleur holds a phallic object is the Noblet.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/dc/9b ... b06611.jpg
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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a penis in the hand is worth how many in the bush? it's a wonderful representation of the focus on physicality which is the magician card. one wonders whose it is? - a magic trick indeed. i guess it's actually a dildo. a matching companion piece to strength's pussy - that is, the open orifice of the lion.


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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

Post by Diana »

_R_ wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 02:29 As far as the six fingers (Bateleur) are concerned, this is an interesting point.

The finger ambiguity is not the preserve of one deck alone: it is to be found on a whole stack of different decks.
https://www.tarot-de-marseille-heritage ... llery.html

Look at the left hand of the Bateleur, the ring and little fingers, to be specific, following the chronological order in which the decks are presented. One will note that what begins as a space between those fingers gradually ends ups looking suspiciously like an extra finger (Burdel and Conver decks especially).

The deck in which the Bateleur holds a phallic object is the Noblet.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/dc/9b ... b06611.jpg
Well, the six fingers of the Bateleur seems to have escaped my attention for some reason. It's very very interesting. Even in the Grimaud, if one increases the size of the picture to view it with detail, this is also apparent - but less so.

So the Bateleur has six fingers, Strength has six toes. This must have something to do with giant myths and stories.

And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on each hand, and six on each foot and he also was the son of the giant.
But when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea David's brother slew him.
These were born unto the giant in Gath; and they fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.

(Chronicles 20:6-8)

Some have speculated that Le Mat (Fool) in the TdM is maybe a giant. I think I have a book that speaks about this.

One thing seems clear about the giant story - women of earth should NOT have sweet love with angels.

_R_: I seem to have a memory that there is a card where the phallic symbol is even more obviously a real penis. I think the Bateleur is holding it closer down on his body. Does this ring a bell for you ? Maybe I'm just imagining things.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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chiscotheque wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 02:51 a penis in the hand is worth how many in the bush? it's a wonderful representation of the focus on physicality which is the magician card. one wonders whose it is? - a magic trick indeed. i guess it's actually a dildo. a matching companion piece to strength's pussy - that is, the open orifice of the lion.
Nice word play !

Do you think actual dildos existed in those days ? Maybe amongst the upper classes ?
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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Diana wrote: 13 Feb 2020, 08:26 _R_: I seem to have a memory that there is a card where the phallic symbol is even more obviously a real penis. I think the Bateleur is holding it closer down on his body. Does this ring a bell for you ? Maybe I'm just imagining things.
No imagination needed: it is Le Fol of the same deck:

Image
Diana wrote: 13 Feb 2020, 08:33
chiscotheque wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 02:51 a penis in the hand is worth how many in the bush? it's a wonderful representation of the focus on physicality which is the magician card. one wonders whose it is? - a magic trick indeed. i guess it's actually a dildo. a matching companion piece to strength's pussy - that is, the open orifice of the lion.
Do you think actual dildos existed in those days ? Maybe amongst the upper classes ?
Visit a museum and take your time.
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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_R_ wrote: 13 Feb 2020, 11:46
No imagination needed: it is Le Fol of the same deck:
No, I meant a Bateleur. But maybe I've got a false memory of something. But I have this idea that it replaces the little round thing that he's holding in his other hand.



Visit a museum and take your time.
I take that as a yes. I wouldn't know which museum though. Those I have visited in my lifetime, I don't recall having seen one.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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dildos have existed since the year dot. shakespeare mentions one in The Winter's Tale (circa. 1590s), but there are sculpted phalluses in existence that are 30, 000 years old.

on a major sidebar: the word phallus and pallas seem to be connected. pallas was athena's "pal", whom she inadvertently killed; as a result she took the name, pallas athena. in her pallas athena mode, she is a warrior, which is to say "like a man". she carries a spear (viz. dildo). in another version of the story, athena's father is named pallas and she kills him when he attempts to rape her (cf. winter's tale - where i might note that, in shakespeare's time, a tail was slang for what it's slang for nowadays [he uses the pun in taming of the shrew] while winter in french is d'hiver). athena is a virgin, and her palladian was sacred to troy. the palladian is said to depict athena as androgynous, both male and female. troy fell when the palladian was removed, later used to found rome and, after that, london (new troy). it's also interesting that athena is goddess of the home, or palace.
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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Oh my, I didn't know all that. I'm far too virginal to have noticed I think. 😎
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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once again, we have strayed from the topic at hand (strength), but the fact that the magician holds a dildo would imply what in tarot terms?
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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There is this theory somewhere that he is in some magical way procreating through onanism - the "spilling of seed". And that is why there is that plant growing up below his legs.

Or something like that. I'd like to find the article I read. It wasn't a wild madcap theory - it had some nice backup to bolster it.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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chiscotheque, you said in another thread that one doesn't have to go to the Ganges to be influenced by Hindiusm.

So in my wanderings today while exploring this Arcanum, Strength, I was reading about Durga who is depicted usually on a lion or a tiger.

"Durga (Sanskrit: दुर्गा, IAST: Durgā), identified as Adi Parashakti, is a principal and popular form of the Hindu Goddess. She is a goddess of war, the warrior form of Parvati, whose mythology centres around combating evils and demonic forces that threaten peace, prosperity, and Dharma the power of good over evil. Durga is also a fierce form of the protective mother goddess, who unleashes her divine wrath against the wicked for the liberation of the oppressed, and entails destruction to empower creation.

Durga is depicted in the Hindu pantheon as a Goddess riding a lion or tiger, with many arms each carrying a weapon"

The etymology of the word is interesting : The word Durga (दुर्गा) literally means "impassable", "invincible, unassailable". It is related to the word Durg (दुर्ग) which means "fortress, something difficult to defeat or pass". Fortress and force must also be related words.

Impassable, invincible, unassailable - reminds one of Strength.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durga

There's also the strange biblical story about Samson who was endowed with superhuman strength - although he slew the lion, he didn't tame it. Wiki speaks of a certain Paul Carus, who puts forward a an interesting proposition about Samson. According to Paul Carus, the lion is a mythical symbol of the heat of the sun, and Samson represents the solar deity who can "kill the lion", that is to diminish the heat of the sun. Carus' conjecture is rooted in an old scholarly approach, not accepted in current research, which considers Samson a mythological "solar hero" – that is, a god or a demigod related to the sun – and interprets the stories about him from this point of view. Samson also at one stage asks riddles, and they also concern a lion.

We're moving on from Thecla. But I suppose there's only so much one can say about her.

As to the actual face of the woman in the Strength card, I believe it may be a mask. I've suspected this for a long time - early on even when I started studying the TdM. And in this case there's no way of knowing whether it's a woman or a man. Or a giant.

Force XI grimaud.png
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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Actually, at least in the Grimaud, Strength has SEVEN toes. The middle one being the biggest. I only noticed that when I zoomed in very large.
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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parvati is often seen with a lion. she is often associated with sexuality. i feel like both the magician and strength are connected strongly with sexuality, essentially because they are very physical, earthy cards. they seem to talk about being a corporeal entity. the lion is indeed a solar symbol, and so strength is harnessing her animus, suggesting an internal balance amounting to the anthropos. recall how man and woman are chained and apart on the devil card, and diablo means divided. i really don't think the juggler is procreating via onanism. i will note he is a trickster, we don't see what's happening with his crotch, he holds a dildo aloft - his phallus and so pleasing himself, or just using his bat to alure?

i also talked about some the of the harsher or darker aspects of the papess when normally she's seen simply as passive and receptive. durga is the mother but she is also kali, as nasty and destructive as shiva. in judeo/christian terms, she is associated with lilith - the negative qualities of woman (eve as the positive) that men (and some women) find troubling.

i guess strength could be wearing a mask, but i've more often heard it said her head is cut off from her body, suggesting a weakness in her strength.

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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

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chiscotheque wrote: 14 Feb 2020, 21:50 parvati is often seen with a lion. she is often associated with sexuality. i feel like both the magician and strength are connected strongly with sexuality, essentially because they are very physical, earthy cards. they seem to talk about being a corporeal entity. the lion is indeed a solar symbol, and so strength is harnessing her animus, suggesting an internal balance amounting to the anthropos. recall how man and woman are chained and apart on the devil card, and diablo means divided. i really don't think the juggler is procreating via onanism. i will note he is a trickster, we don't see what's happening with his crotch, he holds a dildo aloft - his phallus and so pleasing himself, or just using his bat to alure?
Ah yes, the Lion as a solar symbol. Let's keep this in mind. I agree that the juggler isn't procreating via onanism. At least I don't think so. But it's an interesting theory anyway. All theories when it comes to the TdM are interesting. But it's a card full of sexuality and the other card that is so sexual is Strength. There's a huge a lot of clues that show that they are linked. Like their hats. Which may or may not be leminscates - this common belief is so tenacious that no-one questions it much anymore. I wonder sometimes if a hat is not just a hat. But they are the same in both arcana.

i also talked about some the of the harsher or darker aspects of the papess when normally she's seen simply as passive and receptive. durga is the mother but she is also kali, as nasty and destructive as shiva. in judeo/christian terms, she is associated with lilith - the negative qualities of woman (eve as the positive) that men (and some women) find troubling.
Yes, let's discuss Lilith soon. She has a place in the Tarot. Once with some tarot friends and enthusiasts, we thought maybe that Lilith was represented by the Devil, because of the Queen of the Night in the Burney relief : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burney_Relief. But her link to Lilith was later pretty much debunked. But still... not completely.
i guess strength could be wearing a mask, but i've more often heard it said her head is cut off from her body, suggesting a weakness in her strength.

Well then, all the more reason for her being a giant then. All the best and famous giant slayers cut off the heads of the giants. Almost always. It was the habitual thing to do once the giant had been killed. Even David cut off Goliath's head. Jack also cut off the giant's head in Jack and the Beanstalk. A tale that Freud must have had a field day with. Plus other famous giant killers did the same.

It's odd that she has seven toes and not six. Or five.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

Post by Diana »

The Devil has only four fingers on his right hand. And four toes on his left foot. Goodness, they do have unusual extremities these TdM characters.

Diable XV grimaud.png
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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_R_
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

Post by _R_ »

Diana wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 10:19 The Devil has only four fingers on his right hand. And four toes on his left foot. Goodness, they do have unusual extremities these TdM characters.
Zoom in on his hand, the stencilling has coloured over the last finger.

Incidentally, the flame of his torch is still visible beneath the blue of his wings: Marteau changed the significance of the image by changing the colouration rather than the line drawing itself. (One could argue that Lucifer bringer of light has been changed into the Devil in the etymological sense.)
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Diana
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

Post by Diana »

_R_ wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 14:25
Zoom in on his hand, the stencilling has coloured over the last finger.

Incidentally, the flame of his torch is still visible beneath the blue of his wings: Marteau changed the significance of the image by changing the colouration rather than the line drawing itself. (One could argue that Lucifer bringer of light has been changed into the Devil in the etymological sense.)
Yes, indeed. But why did he do that do you think ??

Yes, one can see the outline of a flame. I regret that it's not more evident. But then again, lots of things are hidden in the TdM, so why not this one. One has to search to see the Lucifer behind the Devil. So maybe it's not such a bad thing after all.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Diana
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

Post by Diana »

I read more up on Thecla and her self-baptism and all. It's very interesting but very theological. It was very important for her to get baptised as she was thinking she was going to die in the pond with the fierce sea animals. Lots of kings for example waited till their death bed to get baptised - just to ensure that they wouldn't be barred from heaven.

I just wanted to add here that Thecla apparently took on a very male look afterwards - dressed and acted more like a "man". So that makes me think that the Thecla story is not closely related to Strength in the TdM. But just one of those numerous legends that maybe came to nourish in some way the whole story of a Woman and a Lion.

Edited to add: My conclusion in the second paragraph doesn't make sense. I'll leave it so as to not rewrite history. Because there isn't much "feminity" in this card. It's very masculine indeed. In the esoteric sense.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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_R_
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

Post by _R_ »

My last post wasn't as clear as it should have been: in this, Marteau only followed the colour scheme of the 1890 Camoin reprint of the Conver [https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... 03.highres], and there are a couple of other decks in which the torch-detail is either blurred or coloured over, giving the impression of a sword, notably the earlier Grimaud-Lequart deck of 1891 [https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... 15.highres]. These 2 decks were the chief models for Marteau, both in terms of line drawings and colouration.

Now, why why he chose to go with that rather than a flame - present on practically every other Marseilles-type deck, is another question, especially as in his book, he clearly states it is a flame:
His torch illuminates the world of illusion; its white flame indicates his neutrality, and people, depending on the the activities which they attribute to him in his domain, are the only ones who can lend it color.
https://smallcabin.org/2019/01/31/card-xv-the-devil/
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Re: Strength XI - The Acts of Paul and Thecla

Post by chiscotheque »

Diana wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 16:58
I just wanted to add here that Thecla apparently took on a very male look afterwards - dressed and acted more like a "man".
... Because there isn't much "feminity" in this card. It's very masculine indeed. In the esoteric sense.
insofar as both these statements are true and in regards to what they may represent, it seems to suggest a variation on the "anthropos" concept in Gnosticism, also called the perfect or ur-Adam, wherein male and female elements in a human are intact and balanced, as they were in Adam before he was separated into man and woman, also as they were/are in Christ. god is both male and female, and when "they" made adam in "their" image, that adam was bi or dual sexual like god. this is why in the gnostic gospel of Thomas, where women are respected, Jesus tells the misogynist Peter that he will make women like men - not literally turn females into males but rather make them complete by uniting the females with their male side, just as enlightened males are united with their female side (Peter not being one of the latter).

further in a gnostic direction, the first emanation from god was sophia, and from her emanated Jaldabaoth, a perhaps aptly awkward word which means "son of chaos". another more common name for Jaldabaoth is Demiurge which means craftsman, engineer, or creator. (another less common name for him is Ariel, the name of the active spirit in Shakespeare's The Tempest). the reason he is called an engineer is because he made the universe we can see, the earth, and mankind. he believed he was the greatest being around, the final word in godhood, and his hubris and ignorance is why in short there exists ignorance and decay in our world. he is essentially the wrathful, jealous Yahweh of the old testament. what all this is getting to is that Jaldabaoth is commonly depicted as a lion, sometimes with the head of a lion and the body of a snake. i will note that the body of the strength TdM lion is questionable - it seems to dissipate in tesselations.

i'm suggesting, then, that one interpretation of the strength card is sophia wrestling with her own error and chaos. in gnostic cosmogony, sophia tricked her lion-headed son into breathing into adam, thereby placing and vouchsafing a spark of the divine god in mankind. note, she holds the lion's mouth open. gnostics saw everything allegorically. i would argue this is why the renaissance loved allegory - because they resuscitated the notion after the discovery of the Hermetic Corpus. be that as it may, the strength card may be an allegory of internal female energy embracing and balancing its own external male energy, just as sophia did with her male emanation Jaldabaoth/Yahweh. sophia also correlates to the holy spirit, so that through her - just as she planted the divine scintilla (or soul) in mankind - she as envoy can connect the soul of man with the true godhood. this is a further interpretation of the lion's mouth being open, symbolic as it is of receptivity (in gnostic depictions of Jaldabaoth, his mouth is always open).
jaldabaoth.jpg

note: gnostics, rather like renaissance thinkers, viewed life and art in a multiplicity of allegories. indeed, the more allegories which could be seen within a single image or narrative, the "truer" it was; that is, the more complete and representational of the multiplicity of reality.

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