Indie-Deck Co-Op: Let's Brainstorm

[Joan Marie]

So what would be an acceptable and possibly productive First Step in the creation of such a "Tarot Publisher's Alliance" ? Is it as simple as opening up a new thread on the forum? ...
How to even START to Start and make this happen?

This quote is from a conversation started in another thread (which you can see here) It started as a conversation about Etsy, but the conversation turned toward starting an Indie_deck co-op.

I think it's a brilliant idea and something long over-due.

The "Etsy thread" is well worth taking a look at but to summarise really quick for this new more focused thread, it's been suggested that it would be interesting to have an organised set-up for the creators of Indie decks that could hold it's own against some of the big publishing houses. From that thread:

For some considerable time now, I have been thinking about how beneficial it could be to independent designers and publishers to form a genuine publishing "co-op" in which we could pool our resources (not just money) and present a united front that could stand toe-to-toe with companies like U.S. Games and Lo Scarabeo, competing with them on equal terms. Something that would make wholesaling (and all the other tedious aspects of marketing) easier. As one example, I've been publishing a PDF catalog, and this is something that would be ever so much more interesting to retail and wholesale customers alike if it a) featured more decks than just my own and b) had wider distribution.

I want to open this discussion here because I think if we put our heads together we can come up with something really great.

And input from everyone is welcome. Of course deck creators have their ideas about what would help them, but buyers and collectors are also going to have ideas about what they want. It would also be wonderful to hear from shop owners and other wholesale buyers.

Ultimately, the whole idea is to find an effective and dynamic way to connect as a collective of independents with the people who appreciate and buy our work and encourage us to continue.

This could be the first step toward building something together that could ultimately become an important and lasting foundation of the Indie Tarot Business.

So please just bring your thoughts and ideas about this to this thread. Even if it is just to support the idea.

[Joan Marie]

I'm gonna start.

I think Doug's idea about a PDF catalogue would be a beautiful kick-off for this idea. A good way to get it started.

Something well-designed, functional and original.

Doug, could you give us a ink to your catalogue so we can see what you've done for your shop?

Every member of the "co-op" or "alliance" or whatever we call it, can distribute it through their own mailing lists allowing us to reach a maximum number of people.

We could also create our own mailing list for it, though that would take a little time.

In addition to featuring available decks in the catalogue, there could be a "Coming Soon" feature to let people know what to be watching for and what Kickstarters may be running or soon to be running.

Organising this "co-op" is another thing. I'm actually not too bad at that kind of thing and would be willing to run that side of the project.

[DuckSoupProductions]

Glad to. I have two different versions still online via Dropbox.

First is the original format, which is a straight-forward catalog. This was the 2017 version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x8m6py1vnrafo ... g.pdf?dl=0

Second -- I wanted to make it more interesting, something along the lines of the original Whole Earth Catalog, adding actual content of various kinds to the catalog format. Something that offered more than just a listing of decks for sale. So I combined the catalog with my irregular journal "The Sanctum." This version came out in 2018, and I'm afraid it was just too ambitious, requiring too much effort to keep going. You can see it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j1wo2k0pdyiba ... 8.pdf?dl=0

For those of you from a different generation or a different country for whom the words "Whole Earth Catalog" hold no meaning, here's an article from The Guardian on that subject...

Hope some of this is of interest.

[Joan Marie]

Hope some of this is of interest.

Your catalogue is just great.

I could really see shop owners really loving having something like this delivered to their inbox quarterly, or even monthly, although it does appear to be a pretty massive amount of work.

For an indie deck creator, getting their decks into shops proves to be just a bridge too far. Your making contact with maybe one deck or a couple of them, and hitting shops one-by-one, basically "cold-calling". The worst part is, both parties lose out, you don't sell your deck and the shop misses out on an item their customers would love.

But a catalogue like this would help everybody.

This conversation is already off to a good start. I hope a lot more people join in because staying independent is so important to retaining the freedom and creativity that make Indie Decks the real driving force in tarot today. And yet despite that, its the big publishing houses have all the reach and influence. A well-organised Indie Cooperative could level the playing field, and maybe even tilt it just a bit in a new direction.

[Tag Jorrit]

Problems are creating a venue, consolidating the participants then disseminating the information.

At the current time, since the purple forum is defunct ,the primary places where deck seekers go, I may be wrong, is Etsy or eBay. Unfortunately both take a huge chunk of change from the sellers and if the buyers don't know the name of the decks they seek they don't receive any enlightenment aside from random queries on various fora or fb groups. It would be great if there were a catchy name for an indie card-only site.

I sell my cards on Etsy and infrequently eBay. I also have a Big Cartel site. Etsy, however, is where most people who are looking, find me but Etsy takes a hefty pound of flesh for the privilege of selling on the site. And it only got worse when it got onto the stock exchange.

It would be nice if there were a site similar to Big Cartel that was s for indie cards only and that became THE place to go for fortune cards. Categorized in easy-to-find places on a menu with limited entries so decks can be found relatively easily when potential buyers don't know the deck's name.

Not being a programmer or data analyst I wouldn't have a clue as to how to accomplish such an endeavor. But I suspect that there are a zillion indie card makers who leap at the opportunity to jump in. And potential customers who would love to be able to go such an online smörgåsbord.

All in all, a niche that could be as useful to the cartomancy community as fb is to the rest of the world.

[Joan Marie]

But I suspect that there are a zillion indie card makers who leap at the opportunity to jump in. And potential customers who would love to be able to go such an online smörgåsbord.

I think you are right about that.

You are also right that it would be a challenge to create and maintain such a place. Using the old-fashioned Co-Op model, where each user kicks in a
VERY small flat fee, having enough participants (even a half-zillion for example ) could easily fund it WITHOUT having to exact a piece of every sale made. (the pound of flesh)

In order to scale to that, I think starting with the catalogue would be a first (although still challenging and a fair amount of work) step. The catalogue could then be gradually expanded into the kind of site you are describing here.

I think it just sounds wonderful.

What do you think deck creators? Is this something you'd be on-board with to help establish an Indie alternative to the big publishers marketing reach?

[DuckSoupProductions]

An important factor in the success and viability of the thing is for indie creators to retain their own identity while still being a part of the whole. I haven't spent five years establishing Duck Soup Productions just to be absorbed in something else, and I'm certain everybody else feels the same way. Etsy offers less and less in the way of autonomy and maintaining one's own identity. This is something that would have to be built-in to any Tarot Alliance in order for it to work at all.

[Joan Marie]

An important factor in the success and viability of the thing is for indie creators to retain their own identity while still being a part of the whole.

This is why naming it is actually very important. You'd want something that sounds good, (catchy) describes what it is, but that doesn't dominate. Same with any logo.

As I think about it, the whole brand has to keep this in mind al the time. It should always be "behind" all the artists, not "over" them or ""in front of" them. The identity should be purely functional "that catalogue with all the cool decks that I can buy:sell:add mine to"

The whole point would be to preserve and promote the independent side.

For example, what if in the design there were some loose parameters established for size, resolution etc , but the artists designed their own presentation of their work? Similar to this group deck we're making.

Things could be consolidated on one page, a nice neat usable list, but the actual descriptions and pictures are all designed by the deck creator.

Things like this could help preserve the individuality of each artist.

[HRU's Muse]

I think it's a great idea. Even just to have the catalog which all creators help distribute, it helps us all. All boats rise, and all that, as we work together.

[reall]

i'm big fan of DuckSoup katalogs & would be happy to join with my decks!
imo it's time we got our own tarotzone/Tarotbay/Tarotsy!
as place to present selfpublished Tarot & Oracle decks creators & acc & maybe even readers?
& place where people can log in & buy & post reviews directly same as amazon/ebay etsy?
imo it's Only way we can get near big publishers?x,x lol
oh, I must be only one without mailist don't know how to run it!x,x facepalm
so something we can share as free download would work for social network?

JM like your Coming Soon & ks idea! that would definitely put this newsletter on radar!
seeing how well you run this forum & your web you can do it like a pro!^^ lol
btw 1 page is enough to present 1 deck & artist!^^

also like @Tag Jorrit idea good search button is must!;D looking forward to see what will came up with!^^
I'm on board if you need my help with anything pdf/design formatting etc!?

[DuckSoupProductions]

Now, don't think I'm trying to throw cold water on everything, but this is another issue in getting such a thing as a co-op together:

--> Everybody is pressed for time. Today, I've been dealing with customer issues all morning, I have to ship items this afternoon, I have website management that needs to be done, promotional work that needs to be done... I'm utterly without a spare moment, it seems, and I'm not even TRYing at the moment, to develop new decks.

And I know I'm not the only one: this is, I believe, the major issue that all Indie creators face. Any successful kind of co-op would have to involve some kind of equitable time management, either by hiring someone to do fulfillment or by division of labour (if person A does all the catalog work for everyone, then person b would have to take on, say, all customer fulfillment, etc etc etc.)

A successful co-op needs the same structure as any successful company, regardless of how or who makes up that structure. Things like the Maine Writers and Publishers alliance employ full and part-time staff in a set office location, with all this paid for by annual dues from the members. I don't say that's the form we should take, but it's all something that needs to be thought of and addressed.

Even just a stand-alone indie catalog needs a centralized ordering system and mailing address. And who or what will be on the receiving end of that address?

[Joan Marie]

There's definitely a fair amount of work involved, and exactly how much would depend on the scale of the project. And certainly no one would be required to work on it in order to be part of it.

I would start small and slowly scale up. Not try to conquer the whole thing at once.

I wouldn't even attempt to centralise distribution and fulfilment. Although reliable fulfilment would be a requirement of membership.

I think to begin with, just get a solid catalogue going and find a way to distribute that. That would be a huge step.

Maybe it's less of a traditional "co-op" than it is a service to artists and shop owners and individual buyers.

You're right Doug that there would need to be, even for executing the initial steps, a clear plan established and roles defined. That's the starting place.

These are organisational considerations more than anything. Not insurmountable in my opinion.
I'm happy to take a stab at it.

[DuckSoupProductions]

Well, I'm game to open up the catalog and either assist with the production work or assemble the final product. We'd need to agree on a uniform page template and structure.

Should it be organized by CATEGORY and indexed by CREATOR... or the reverse? Or some variation?

We'd all need to be on the same page software-wise, or at least capable of producing pages that are compatible with InDesign...

???? Any other issues to discuss, let's discuss 'em and get everything as ironed out as we can at the start.

And what about a physical version of the thing?

[reall]

i'm on board with tech just let me know if I can help preparing those files anyway?
also pod maybe an option for catalog or we have someone with printer & free time to do all mailing?
btw youtube/ig maybe better idea than actual printing seeing how popular it is & people prefer their info fast & on fingertip?

[Joan Marie]

I think to get started producing we'll need 4 things:

1. A kind of pitch/description summarising what this is/trying to be.

2. A kind of "mock up" sample of a catalogue.

If we have those two things we can then proceed to get the next 2 things:

3. A starter-group of deck creators to participate in the first edition, i.e. have their decks in the catalog.

4. A starter group of interested shops/buyers to distribute to.

This is how we can assemble an audience, establish a basis of interest in the project, before killing ourselves producing our first edition.

Deck creators, I think we know how to reach.
Buyers also.

Shops is another thing.
I am working on couple of contacts to see how we can get into that group.
The angle I see is this: I KNOW they are interested in carrying Indie decks in their stores, BUT being contacted all the time by individual deck creators who are basically "cold-calling" them doesn't work and is mostly ineffectual. Having a regularly issued catalogue focused on just indie decks for sale is different.
One thing we need to find out (and I'm working on) is exactly how to approach them in the best way messaging-wise. I think most of us have tried some form of the "Don't you think my deck would be cool in your shop?" approach, but maybe this is not the best way to actually get their interest.

Having deck creators on board will interest the shop owners and buyers and vis-versa.

As I write this, I'm thinking of a kickstarter. But even before that, just to gauge the interest, maybe start a mailing list, to sort of Kickstart the Kickstarter? In other words we need to assemble an audience for it.

I think we do that by putting together a little "press packet" kind of thing with a description and a sample.

Regarding your question about indexing by category or creator, I would def say category.

I attended a workshop last spring about exactly this topic. It was called, Store Owner's Insights into Deck Success.
She told us buyers do not buy based on the creator. I know, ouch. Obvi some creators have a name that piques buyer interest, but it's not what sells the deck. And a deck out of the blue can be a huge surprise seller. (only to shop owners it's not such a surprise because the have more insight into what their customer will buy and why. )

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I said we need to learn how to reach store-owners and speak to their experience.

So, that was a lot of writing I just did and still no real direction about what a mock-up catalogue should even look like, or anything else.

This is still brainstorming time.

If you are interested, please have a look at these two posts I made some time ago regarding this workshop I attended:
Trends in Deck Sales

Metaphysical Shops

[DuckSoupProductions]

Much to digest in your post. Sorry I've been out of touch with the group -- the last few weeks have been crazy and I'm still trying to find the bottom... I'll be back when things calm down to a dull roar...