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XIII and Le Mat/Fou/Fol - unnamed and unnumbered

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Diana
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XIII and Le Mat/Fou/Fol - unnamed and unnumbered

Post by Diana »

The card XIII (unnamed, sometimes referred to as the “Arcane Sans Nom” (Arcanum with no name) I suppose because it’s more practical linguistically to give it a name – but it’s never ever called “death” and Le Mat/Fou/Fol (unnumbered)) are of course but one and the same, when compared side by side. I think the similarities are so obvious that there’s no need to elaborate on them much but would love to hear from others in case I’ve missed out on something!

Apart from the glaring similarities, when we put them back to back the card(s) then has/have both a name and a number. They complete each other. When one or the other of these cards pops into my head for contemplation or onto my lap, the other is evoked immediately too. Like a jack-in-the-box.

And am reminded oft times of this verse in Matthew:

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


XIII.jpg
Le Mat.gif
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Charlie Brown
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Re: XIII and Le Mat/Fou/Fol - unnamed and unnumbered

Post by Charlie Brown »

When the comparison is made between Le Mat & XIII, I always wonder what happened to the Fool's second stick. The immediate thought is that he's left his possessions behind as he enters the more spiritual realms of the later trumps.

Another detail about later Death cards (it starts, I think, with the Conver) that I really like is when the vertebrae of the spine are articulated how they are in the example card that you attached to this post. Notice that the spine looks noticeably similar to a stalk of wheat. This cleverly articulates the card's connection to grains and agriculture. This was always present due to the scythe harvesting the fields, but I really do get a kick out of the more explicit connection made by the spine.

Back to the Fool though, I do like the Le Mat = XII equation. Especially because one of my favorite readings that I've done had an important progression from the fool's stick turning into the reaper's scythe, turing into Justice's sword. Ultimately, though, I tend to be a bit skeptical. Although I'm not 100% convinced one way or the other yet, my sense leans towards the notion that XII was originally designed to face leftwards where he can cut the rope which suspends Le Pendu. Furthermore, a left facing Death casts the reaper as something that must be faced and/or gotten through in order to get to the later, more abstract and spiritual trumps. A right facing Death almost seems helpful in his way. I'm hoping that when the English translation of Houdin's book finally comes that he'll attempt to shed some light on this. The Millenium edition does have a leftward death, after all.
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Diana
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Re: XIII and Le Mat/Fou/Fol - unnamed and unnumbered

Post by Diana »

Charlie Brown: Could you please rephrase your first sentence about the Fool and his two sticks. I don't understand what you mean. What do you mean "what happened to it"? Are you talking about the stick he's holding on his shoulder ? And why do you say it disappeared ? I am thinking now maybe you're talking about the "Fool's Journey" ? If so, let it be known by all that I have the conviction that it's the Bateleur's Journey. (Be prepared and forewarned all who read this : I'll be ranting and raving about this from time to time !!!). The Fool would represent our HIgher Self/Holy Ghost. It doesn't journey. It is always with us and it just accompanies us wherever we choose to travel. But the Higher Self remains unaffected by human activities and has nothing to gain and nothing to lose.

Oh yes, I love that stalk of wheat. I'd never made the connection to agricultural reaping. And the deeper meanings must be myriad. One of which could be a reference to the bible verse "unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life." In the biblical scriptures it also makes mention somewhere of the importance of "dying daily" to be reborn anew. (I'm mostly familiar with biblical scripture but one can find similar phrases in scriptures of other regions and cultures. They all say the same thing in different words. But I'm mostly familiar with biblical scripture so I go with that.)

Interesting your hypothesis of the reaper facing maybe the wrong way. It's an interesting hypothesis but I'm not convinced. Will keep this in mind of course, as it gives a new perspective.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Charlie Brown
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Re: XIII and Le Mat/Fou/Fol - unnamed and unnumbered

Post by Charlie Brown »

You're saying the figure of the Fool is analogous to the figure of Death, perhaps that the Fool has even become Death, yes? If the two figures are analogous then what became of his stick he carries over his shoulder with the bundle tied to it? We couldn't know, of course, but that's where my speculation arose from.

Saying the Fool doesn't journey when he's pictured mid-step and carrying a bindle seems deeply wrong to me. That is not to say I see the trumps as the fool's journey. That's a late romantic conceit if I'm not mistaken.

Whether Death faces left or right, I'm not sure there's a "true" tarot that would define these issues. BUT...Death faces left in the Noblet and the Cary-Yale, and forward with a leftward lean in the Visconti Sforza. I think that Houdin's basic thesis has to do with printing plates that got modified/reversed in reproduction.
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Diana
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Re: XIII and Le Mat/Fou/Fol - unnamed and unnumbered

Post by Diana »

Oh, I didn't mean to say that the FOOL becomes Death. If anything, it's the other way round. The cycle of this life experience on earth is over, for the Bateleur or for whoever began the difficult path of initiation. He has truly died to his humanness and has crossed over to the other side (either literally or metaphorically). When he went through his difficult and almost unbearable stage of dying to his ego (XIII), he transitions to another state with Temperance. He moves step by step towards his final and inevitable union with The One, the universal consciousness.

But the INDIVIDUAL consciousness of the Bateleur or whoever, did not die when his ego died. It is still there in the stalk of wheat - his essence remains. Nothing can destroy it. That is why the cards can be merged. It's the same man... only different because no longer concerned with material things and human limitations.

He is indeed walking. Life is eternal. Life cannot die, that would be a contradiction in itself. And it's always in "motion". Standing still is impossible for Life. It is an ever flowing source of energy. So is the Fool walking towards a higher stage of consciousness and therefore not return to this earthly plane, or will he have to return for another life on this earthly plane ? If the latter were the case, he would need his little bag that he carries on his long spoon (for, as a proverb of the Middle Ages said : when supping with the Devil, it is wise to use a long spoon). He would not return empty handed, but full of his previous experiences that will help on his new journey.

Ah... all these are just musings. But it certainly makes sense to me at present. (Some kind of sense at least).
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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_R_
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Re: XIII and Le Mat/Fou/Fol - unnamed and unnumbered

Post by _R_ »

Elsewhere, I have translated an excerpt by the French author Tchalaï, dealing with this very topic. As far as I know, she was the first to equate Le Mat with XIII, although one would have to check. In her booklet for Grimaud, she states that: "Le Mat and XIII are two aspects of the same operation." In her main work, we find the following quote:
Consider Le Mat. Is there another card which draws our attention in a similar manner? The answer is obviously yes. There is another card which has an image and a number – thus placing it within the sequence of 22 cards we are now considering. However, it has no name, nor even a cartouche where the name should be. Nor is its name inscribed on the side of the card, as with the Valet of Deniers of the Great Square. This card is that numbered XIII. When we look at Le Mat, we notice that the upper cartouche is empty, but the cartouche itself exists. Therefore, Le Mat does have a number. Perhaps this number is to be found elsewhere and we can begin by examining more closely the particularity of this card numbered XIII.

These two cards are incomplete with respect to the other “Cartes de Voyage”, but their design tells us that they are clearly a part of this group. If we compare the figures, we immediately notice they are analogous: both figures facing the right-hand side of the card from the viewer’s perspective, stepping forward with their left feet, the one leaning on a walking stick, the other on a handle attached to a blade. Both stick and handle are at a similar angle and are both of the same yellow colour. The figures are not totally superimposable but their postures are very similar indeed.

Let us put forth the hypothesis that both cards can be paired together. We would then have one card, bearing the name Le Mat and the number XIII, and whose image would be doubled up, so to speak, as though the one were the x-ray image of the other. We cannot simply label Le Mat as XIII since this number is already “taken”, which leads us to place Le Mat behind XIII rather than in front of it.
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Diana
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Re: XIII and Le Mat/Fou/Fol - unnamed and unnumbered

Post by Diana »

Here's a picture where Death and the Fool meet. For us TdM people, just before the fusion. (A bit like Sangoku and Vegeta in DragonBallZ. But they get a new name once the two have become one.)

Death and the Fool meet.jpg
Gogeta.jpg
Gogeta.jpg (39.15 KiB) Viewed 2857 times

Once with a wonderful young Italian lad on Aeclectic who went by the name of Pollux and another girl whose name escapes me now, we started designing our own DragonBall tarot deck. We knew it would never be able to be published due to copyright, but we had a lovely time. But stopped after only a few cards.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Diana
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Re: XIII and Le Mat/Fou/Fol - unnamed and unnumbered

Post by Diana »

So this morning I was thinking of Harry Potter. And Voldemort. And how Voldemort is the person who must NOT be named. Just like the TdM Death card.

JK Rowling had a degree in French. So she knows "Fol" (another word for Le Mat/Fool in the Tarot of Marseilles) means "crazy/mad" and "mort" means death. JK Rowling must have studied a wee bit the Tarot as the astrology teacher, Professor Trewalney warns Harry : If Dumbledore chooses to ignore the warnings the cards show. Again and again, no matter how I lay them out - the lightning-struck tower, Calamity. Disaster. Coming nearer all the time ..."

But I thought it was funny this example once again of Death and The Fool coming together. Funny not really haha, but more funny strange.

Quick edit to add : Professor Trelawney's first ever prediction was : and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives"
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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Diana
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Re: XIII and Le Mat/Fou/Fol - unnamed and unnumbered

Post by Diana »

Well, I'll continue my musings on the Name and the No Name. (I'm concentrating my studies of the TdM at the moment on Arcanum XIII this week.) So here's another thought :

When you give a name to something - to a baby for instance - you are validating its existence. It is a symbolic way of saying: "You exist".
I would think that not giving something a name is invalidating its existence.

Now, obviously this card does not mean that a person is being invalidated - if it REALLY meant that, then indeed it would mean death and it would have been called such, and it would not be in the middle of the Tarot deck but at the end (and again we find a hint to its brother card, Le Mat, which comes either at the end of the deck, or between Jugement XX and Le Monde XXI according to some tarot scholars). But what it COULD imply is something similar to the first initiation which takes place in many secret societies or in religious movements. When people receive their initiation, in other words, when they leave behind the OLD MAN, and start their initiatory journey to become a NEW MAN, they frequently have to give up their old name, and are either give a new one known to all - for instance nuns and monks - or else they receive a Secret Name only known to other initiates.

What I'm trying to say is that this card could also be viewed as a card of INITIATION and therefore GREAT CHANGE. Of discarding the Old absolutely, to the point of GIVING UP ONE'S NAME, in other words, one's old identity.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
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