Coupes (cups)

[Diana]

I thought a discussion on the Coupes in the Tarot would be nice. So that's what I'm proposing here. I always feel very touched in my heart with the suit of Cups. Particularly the Ace of Cups. This would make sense as I think the Cup is the symbol of the heart chakra (but cannot find anything definitive to refer to - if someone has a decent reference or proper knowledge, I'd be happy if you would share, and if I'm wrong, to correct me.) Also it is I believe the symbol of the Heart of Jesus.

(This thread could perhaps been put in a non TdM forum, i.e. a more general one, but I'm hoping that specific cards from the TdM will be evoked, so I put it here.)

So what exactly are cups? Well, they are primarily functional aren't they. So that's where I think I will begin.

We put liquids in cups. It's strange... we COULD put solids in them and eat them with a spoon or a fork, but no, we only put liquids in them for drinking. So cups are primarily used for aiding us in quenching our thirst. Water is, after breathing, the most vital thing for man to do in order to survive. So cups are very important utensils indeed. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Quenching one's thirst. A beautiful concept. Jesus is quoted as saying: "Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled". I would suspect that a similar saying could be found in older and/or other spiritual teachings and scriptures

You see, when I draw a Cup card when I am doing a reading with the Tarot of Marseilles, I often get this feeling of "thirsting" for something "higher". Thirsting perhaps for Justice, or for Peace, or for Harmony, or for "Righteousness".

Cups need to be filled in order for them to serve a purpose. So I think Cups in The Tarot show us that there is a need waiting to be met. (Or it can show that the need has been filled.) I don't think it would speak of duties that need to be fulfilled - this would be more of the Swords function. The needs would be of a more intimate nature, I think.

They are also used as a celebratory item - for instance the winner of a sports event receives a cup as a prize. So that would mean that cups can also be viewed as a reward for something well-earned. In Ancient Greece, the winners of the Olympic Games were awarded an amphora with olive oil in it.

Cups are also used to indicate hospitality. When someone visits, we usually ask them if they want to drink something. In our day and age, we would give them a glass. But glasses were not for the common man in older times - people would drink from Cups. So cups are a symbol of hospitality, of friendship... of love perhaps too? When two people drink from the same cup, it's almost as if they are signing a kind of a pact. Is this not done in some marriage ceremonies?

What else can we say more about the Cups in order to understand those of the Tarot better?

[Joan Marie]

What else can we say more about the Cups in order to understand those of the Tarot better?

The suit of cups is associated with the element of water (cups hold liquids) and so I always think of flowing, going with the flow, or creative flow, that headspace where things happen because you let them. You get out of your own way.

[katrinka]

You don't even need all the gymnastics. The heart is a vessel. It has chambers.

[Charlie Brown]

Along those coronary lines, it's very easy for me to think of the cup, especially the Ace, as the Grail and, of course, the communion wine/blood, and the phrase Water of Life as a synonym for the Holy Ghost.

Perhaps I missed it, but it seems like the 'pleasure' aspect of the cups has been left out of the discussion.

[Diana]

Perhaps I missed it, but it seems like the 'pleasure' aspect of the cups has been left out of the discussion.

Could you elaborate more ? (Is this not more of a RWS kind of interpretation?)

[Joan Marie]

Perhaps I missed it, but it seems like the 'pleasure' aspect of the cups has been left out of the discussion.

Could you elaborate more ? (Is this not more of a RWS kind of interpretation?)

Funny coincidence, this is the Today's Card, (today being May 17, 2019)
The six of cups from M.M. Meleen's Thoth based Rosetta Tarot:

[Charlie Brown]

Perhaps I missed it, but it seems like the 'pleasure' aspect of the cups has been left out of the discussion.

Could you elaborate more ? (Is this not more of a RWS kind of interpretation?)

According to whom? It isn't like there's a wealth of historical literature on the pips and everything I've seen suggests that Marseille style is more expansive, not less, in what it covers. Looking quickly, Ben-Dov says

Cups: Sentimental, romantic, social spiritual

...We may think of the cup as being filled with wine (joy, drunkeness)... The nature of the suit is romantic, nostalgic

While Collette Silvestre (roughtly translated)

The cups relate to the sentiments: feelings, friendship, love, grand joys, affective life, pleasures, and happiness

Although I see that you did touch on it a bit at the bottom of your first post.

[Diana]

I didn't pay attention the the card of the Day. Thanks for pointing this out.

Ah the 6. The first perfect number !

The 6th day of creation. After this, no more to be done but sit back and admire one's handiwork.

So with both the Heart and Perfection, this is a most satisfying card to draw !! There's a lot of love here, I believe.

[Diana]

It isn't like there's a wealth of historical literature on the pips .

I'm not convinced at all that the minors ever had any symbolic meaning. They were just playing cards I think. To play in the pubs of the time.

I actually rarely use the minors for readings. The Major Arcana usually give me more than enough to ponder about. But from time to time I like to "play" with them.

I ususally just simply relate the number in the minor card to the number in the majors. LIke 6 would be related to l'Amoureaux or Le Diable (1+5). Because I have something concrete to base my interpretations on right from the Tarot itself.

[Charlie Brown]

I'm a big fan of majors only reading. The reason I think that minors were used is that you have 1) lots of playing card reading so it isn't like readers wouldn't have known what to do with them and 2) the tradition of these very large tableau spreads including significators and the like, especially the ones where most of the cards are glossed over. You might see a line between the devil and the significator and the suits and quantities further detail the nature of the situation.

[Diana]

(I edited my last post to add a paragraph).

I forget what a significator is. I have heard of the term, but don't think I remember what it is.

You're quite right about the playing cards!!

[Charlie Brown]

A significator is when a court card is assigned to represent the querent and/or other significant people in the questioner's life. Today, there are lots of ways that people assign significators (astrological sign, personality traits, etc.) Historically, one would have been strictly on physical description. As a blonde man, for example, I would be the King of Swords.

[chiscotheque]

the idea brought up by Joan Marie, about flowing, is quite true. life itself is fluid - the river of time. all life on earth is the result of the fact our planet has water. humans come from the ocean. blood flows through us, and we pass on our blood to our progeny, in the flow of life. this idea of blood connects with the idea Charlie Brown introduced of the wine to blood of the eucharist. that which is intoxicating and life-sustaining - wine & blood - becomes a symbol for christ's quenching of the spiritual thirst. indeed, the eucharist and the holy ghost are made explicit on the ace of cups with the water, the wafer, and the paracleet dove.

another aspect of cups is they are receptive, a literal receptacle, signifying the feminine. there is a self-sustaining circularity to water, suggesting a woman's cycle, relating to parturition. the vessel represents that thing we use to hold us for the short time we are here on this earth. the cup gives the amorphous shape.

water always finds its level. its surface reflects - darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters - but it contains untold depths. it may indeed be unfathomable.

[Diana]

A significator is when a court card is assigned to represent the querent and/or other significant people in the questioner's life. Today, there are lots of ways that people assign significators (astrological sign, personality traits, etc.) Historically, one would have been strictly on physical description. As a blonde man, for example, I would be the King of Swords.

Thank you for the explanation. Would have more queries but we'd be getting too off topic for too long. Will possibly open a new thread for discussion if interest.

[Diana]

darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

I just checked and the word "waters" is mentioned 11 times in the Creation story in Genesis. God keeps on dividing them and separating them and rearranging them and gathering them. No wonder He had to rest on the 7th day. That's heavy duty work !

(chiscotheque, your eloquence and literary style is like a gentle breeze on a warm summer's day. And so much softer without all these capital letters us common mortals use.)