decks that can only be read intuitively

[stronglove]

for the last couple of weeks i have been working with the hidden waters tarot. i love that it doesn’t come with a guidebook, and that it is abstract, because the only way to make any sense of it is by using my intuition and meditate on the cards that come up in a reading.
now i am looking for similar decks. decks where the artist has incorporated her own sense of the individual cards into the artwork, but in a way that isn’t immediately obvious.
there is a thread somewhere about which decks stimulate your intuition but in the decks mentioned there the references to the traditional meanings of the cards are still way too obvious for my taste.
any recommendations?

[BlueStar]

Interesting question. I would have thought that maybe any non-traditional deck would work well for this, or perhaps ones with more abstract imagery like the Japaridze tarot (haven't used it myself but the imagery is abstract and certainly not traditional). I have the Oracle of Visions deck, which although isn't strictly tarot, can be used for readings in the same way, and has great imagery open to interpretation with a good range of cards (it was designed for readers to use their own interpretations, but also includes some possible intepretations in the guidebook for starting points if you wish). I find the Osho Zen tarot which is non-traditional, another one great for intuition, again with a good range of cards major and minor, based on the elements. It has words on the cards but these could be trimmed off.

Joan Marie's thread of tarot decks might be a good way to discover some, as she gives card examples from the decks
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=126

I too would be interested to hear other's suggestions.

[Charlie Brown]

It's hard to answer without having a better sense of what it means to read intuitively. As of late I've been hearing wildly different, often incompatible definitions. It reminds me of this thread Joan Marie recently started. I've been meaning to post in it, but it might be quite lengthy and I haven't really had the fortitude to spend a large amount of time being controversial.

viewtopic.php?f=165&t=1261

[Joan Marie]

Joan Marie's thread of tarot decks might be a good way to discover some, as she gives card examples from the decks
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=126

BTW- That thread had so many images posted in it that sometimes the image links appear to be broken- they are not- just re-load the page and the images pop right up.

[stronglove]

It's hard to answer without having a better sense of what it means to read intuitively.

good point! as a matter of fact i used the word intuitively for lack of a better word, and i guess it only generated more confusion
because i am not looking for decks like the japaridze or the osho zen. i own both and use them regularly, but they are much to explicit/obvious in their imagery for this, ehh, maybe i should call it ‘open reading’?
i can give an example. here is the hidden water’s five of cups

this image gives me no clue whatsoever about the meaning of the five of cups. if i want to receive its message, i will have to dive deep into my own subconscious, or meditate on it, or try to ‘enter’ its landscape, there is no preconceived idea like: oh, this is the five of cups so this must mean.... (fill in the traditional RWS keywords) no, this cards screams: you’re on your own now, girl! this us uncharted territory
and that’s exactly what i’m looking for. because it challenges me to go deeper.
in the japaridze and osho zen cards there are stories, stuff is happening, they are different and highly personal, sometimes unorthodox interpretations of the RWS standard. which is great, interesting, but not what i’m looking for.

but maybe there are not many decks like that around..... i have two that come close: the starry cauldron and the dark arts, both without guidebooks so it is up to me to figure them out. i think that’s also an important difference with the japaridze and osho zen, because they have guidebooks and the images are supposed to mean something, even if i decide not to use the guidebook. something like the margarete petersen or the dream dust shamanic might work though, even though they come with guidebooks as well, but at least their imagery is pretty abstract. but the dream dust has these irritating keywords on the cards, so i’ll have to trim that one.....

i hope this makes sense, but maybe i’ve just added to the confusion.....

btw i would be really interested in hearing your controversial point of view on intuition, charlie brown! bring it on!

[Charlie Brown]

I like these oracle cards by Cheryl Lee Hamish. I have the Path of the Soul deck. Each card does have a number on it and, in the book, there is a little interpretation entry for each one but, honestly, I think that's just there because it has to be. Frankly, I find the book to be worthless but if you, really can't swim without a floatee, then it's probably a decent crutch. I had a person who used to come to our local group and she would deal oracle cards and then read the book entry for each card and then lose her mind if, for example, she asked a question about a thing and the LWB said something about a person.

https://www.fractalart.ca/features/cards-and-books

I used this deck as part of my February Intuitive Circle reading if you want to go look it up.

[Libra]

Check out Soul Cards - there are 2 sets, that come with no numbers, card titles or set meanings!

[stronglove]

I like these oracle cards by Cheryl Lee Hamish. I have the Path of the Soul deck. Each card does have a number on it and, in the book, there is a little interpretation entry for each one but, honestly, I think that's just there because it has to be. Frankly, I find the book to be worthless but if you, really can't swim without a floatee, then it's probably a decent crutch. I had a person who used to come to our local group and she would deal oracle cards and then read the book entry for each card and then lose her mind if, for example, she asked a question about a thing and the LWB said something about a person.

https://www.fractalart.ca/features/cards-and-books

I used this deck as part of my February Intuitive Circle reading if you want to go look it up.

ah, i backed her reprint of the return of spirit together with the other two decks, but then for some reason withdrew my pledge....
thanks for bringing these cards back to my attention, i remember really being drawn to these decks.... (also because i love fractals, i used to ‘create’ fractal artworks myself)

[stronglove]

Check out Soul Cards - there are 2 sets, that come with no numbers, card titles or set meanings!

yes, yes! how could i forget about those..... i own both decks and have used them a lot....
having so many decks is really clouding my perspective, i have a list but somehow it never helps going through all those titles, so thanks for this reminder!
i guess i really don’t have to buy another deck...

[jaq]

It's hard to answer without having a better sense of what it means to read intuitively. As of late I've been hearing wildly different, often incompatible definitions. It reminds me of this thread Joan Marie recently started. I've been meaning to post in it, but it might be quite lengthy and I haven't really had the fortitude to spend a large amount of time being controversial.

viewtopic.php?f=165&t=1261

Oh, how I would love to hear your opinion!

Yeah, the question is, what do we mean by intuitive? My (draft) personal definition in terms of tarot would be that it is the type of reading that, to the best of the reader's conscious experience, does not ground most interpretations in what the reader has learned about suits, numbers, symbolism, etc. In my intuitive readings, I also take seriously any sudden flashes of memories, insights, associations, etc. Hey, maybe we should have a thread where everyone can post their definition of intuitive reading?

Having said all that, I think the further a deck is away from RWS and TdM, the more it invites intuitive reading. Decks that have written interpretations right on the image also don't invite as much intuitive reading. E.g. I just got the Art of Life (wrong deck, when I ordered it I thought it was another art type deck that I have unfortunately lost). For example, on the Four of Wands, it says "Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds you plant." Interesting, because I wouldn't take that as a much-used interpretation of the Four of Wands - but still, I can't help but be influenced by those words as I read the car.

There's also lots of decks that use unusual depictions. I hardly ever look at the LWB, so I guess they're de-facto intuitive-only. The Tarot of the Celtic Faeries is quite "out there" in unusual depictions, as are many others I own, e.g. the Langustl, the Karma Tarot, the Daughters of the Moon, the Amano.

[Charlie Brown]

Oh, how I would love to hear your opinion!

Well, I don't actually have a definition of intuitive reading, but I sure do some problems with other people's. Since you and StrongLove have both made the request, I'll try and carve out a bit of time this weekend. I'm also planning on doing a sort of music post when I'm less lazy than I am these days, by which I mean the 21st century.

[Myperception]

I recently have 2 decks that comes with the companion book, the cards or the spread should be read in such way.

But when i lay the cards, my intuition and how i look at the cards, there are different informations in my mind. Apart of practising in reading my own, i used it to read for people surrounding me (not close, the less i knew them the better). I found out if i follow my intuition and read, i did better as there is no limitations. But once i refer back to the book, oh my... i am stuck.

I think i have issues

[stronglove]

hihi maybe the companion books have issues....
i remember the guidebook that came with the wild unknown, it was completely incomprehensible to me.... i threw it away. i did even worse things with the deck, i took my color pencils and added lots of color to the images. now it is MY deck....(though i must admit i still don’t use it much)

[inomminate]

If a deck has no links to traditional meanings is it still a tarot deck. I am not saying that it won't work but is it a tarot. Does it matter?

inomminate

[BlueStar]

...I think i have issues

No I think you are finding out how to use your own intuition and use cards in the right way for you:):)

[Anesidora]

If a deck has no links to traditional meanings is it still a tarot deck. I am not saying that it won't work but is it a tarot. Does it matter?

inomminate

I think as long as it follows the traditional tarot structure, it should count as a tarot deck, but that would mean that it would need some root in traditional meanings.
otherwise imo it's just an oracle deck

[katrinka]

It's hard to answer without having a better sense of what it means to read intuitively.

good point! as a matter of fact i used the word intuitively for lack of a better word, and i guess it only generated more confusion
because i am not looking for decks like the japaridze or the osho zen. i own both and use them regularly, but they are much to explicit/obvious in their imagery for this, ehh, maybe i should call it ‘open reading’?
i can give an example. here is the hidden water’s five of cups

10AC77CD-9AA3-404B-8418-69402E39C29A.jpeg

this image gives me no clue whatsoever about the meaning of the five of cups. if i want to receive its message, i will have to dive deep into my own subconscious, or meditate on it, or try to ‘enter’ its landscape, there is no preconceived idea like: oh, this is the five of cups so this must mean.... (fill in the traditional RWS keywords) no, this cards screams: you’re on your own now, girl! this us uncharted territory
and that’s exactly what i’m looking for. because it challenges me to go deeper.

Then I have to ask: why do you require a Tarot structure at all?
Tarot just is structured. If you don't want structure, why not just cast pebbles, or read ink blots, or...?

[Nemia]

Margarete Petersen Tarot is abstract, expressive, and is best read intuitively - I don't find the book helpful at all. It's a very beautiful deck.

Death

Five of Cups

Five of Feathers

The Fool

Mother of Flames

Nine of Feathers

Seven of Flames

Three of Coins

[Koenn]

You can find a good description of tarot cards on this page of the site https://truepredictor.com/ Everything is very easily explained.

[Charlie Brown]

Then I have to ask: why do you require a Tarot structure at all?
Tarot just is structured. If you don't want structure, why not just cast pebbles, or read ink blots, or...?

Yes. I'm not sure why there's such an insistence on some people's part that the tarot is meant to be read intuitively. There are lots of great oracle decks. Honestly, I wish I had more opportunity to use mine.

[Diana]

A blind person can still read the tarot. Without seeing the images on the cards. Little White Books are nice to read to see and honour what the artist says about the cards. It's their baby after all and need to write about it. But most LWBs, with some exceptions, can end up stifling the reader's own perceptions and visions if relied upon too much.

In fact, one could just write numbers on scraps of paper from 1 to 78 and one could get the same answer as the most intricately and beautifully designed deck. If one is intuitive enough and has some basic knowledge of the "science" of The Tarot (i.e. numbers, elements, etc.).

[katrinka]

Then I have to ask: why do you require a Tarot structure at all?
Tarot just is structured. If you don't want structure, why not just cast pebbles, or read ink blots, or...?

Yes. I'm not sure why there's such an insistence on some people's part that the tarot is meant to be read intuitively. There are lots of great oracle decks. Honestly, I wish I had more opportunity to use mine.

Yes, not just decks, but everything - dripping wax melts into a bowl of water, watching clouds...there's a world of unstructured things people read.

Tarot has number sequences and ranks and suits. And when you get into Hermetic Tarot, there's astrology and Qabalah...all of those things are structured. I was just reading this old post on AT http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php? ... stcount=17 and it makes me want to internalize the structures more.

[Diana]

If a deck has no links to traditional meanings is it still a tarot deck. I am not saying that it won't work but is it a tarot. Does it matter?

inomminate

Technically no. The Tarot is a school, a teaching of its own. It has a structure unique to it.

I would say many decks are "derivative" tarots, which does not mean they do not have their own beauty and meaning. But if they stray too far, then they become oracles.

Dear old Umbrae from Aeclectic used to read with toothpicks and raindrops. But toothpicks and raindrops aren't Tarot. (I'd love to read raindrops but don't know how.)