Thanks everyone

[Joan Marie]

I just want to thank everyone here for treating the forum so gently these past few days and while addressing our feelings and concerns and thoughts about the current situation, we've avoided the pitfall of getting into divisive and depressing political discussions and of spreading crazy information.

Other forums have not been so, shall we say, lucky.

Here we seem to all be concerned with each other's well being and helping ourselves and each other to get through this time.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate it and I am sure I am not the only one. Someday this will be over and we will want this place to have remained a steady and reliable source of community and focus. We will not spiral out into this current zeitgeist of anger and despair.

As I like to say, that's what Facebook is for.

[Diana]

I just want to thank everyone here for treating the forum so gently these past few days and while addressing our feelings and concerns and thoughts about the current situation, we've avoided the pitfall of getting into divisive and depressing political discussions and of spreading crazy information.

I'm sorry Joan Marie. But if we remove the political from the affair, we're missing the point. This isn't about us and our instinct for self-preservation. This goes much deeper than that. If we refuse to see that, well, like I often say, our tomorrows will be no better than our yesterdays. This is a problem of our civilisation - not how to get through a few weeks of confinement. And I never find political discussions depressing. Everything is political.

The Arcanum Without A Name (i.e. "death") must be given a name.

[Joan Marie]

I'm sorry Joan Marie. But if we remove the political from the affair, we're missing the point. This isn't about us and our instinct for self-preservation. This goes much deeper than that. If we refuse to see that, well, like I often say, our tomorrows will be no better than our yesterdays. This is a problem of our civilisation - not how to get through a few weeks of confinement. And I never find political discussions depressing. Everything is political.

The Arcanum Without A Name (i.e. "death") must be given a name.

That's actually missing the point of what I said. Sorry.

I think the internet offers us all plenty of options to have those types of discussions.
I really don't think it's hard to understand.

How's the book coming?

[A-M]

I feel these times relate to the Hanged Man, the card that I am (coincidently?) working on at the moment.
We are forced, by events in the outside world, into a state of passiveness and contemplation.
Something humanity desperately needed!
The Hanged Man invites us to a process of transformation.

[stronglove]

Ah this is so true! Exactly what i’ve been thinking these last few weeks, i think someone here called it a tower-moment, and i thought: no, this is definitely a hanged man moment.... thanks for this comment!
And it really helps me deal with what’s going on, if i keep thinking: what would the hanged man do? :lol

[stronglove]

That's actually missing the point of what I said. Sorry.

I think the internet offers us all plenty of options to have those types of discussions.
I really don't think it's hard to understand.

agreed. thanks for pointing that out

[Charlie Brown]

The Arcanum Without A Name (i.e. "death") must be given a name.

I vote for Stewart.

[Charlie Brown]

Everything is political.

[stronglove]

The Arcanum Without A Name (i.e. "death") must be given a name.

I vote for Stewart.

I thought it was Dean

[Charlie Brown]

The Arcanum Without A Name (i.e. "death") must be given a name.

I vote for Stewart.

I thought it was Dean

Randy. But, it's quiet around here and I was looking to distract myself. This Shakira concert is almost over and I know I'm going to switch the news back on.

[AstralPasta]

I'm sorry Joan Marie. But if we remove the political from the affair, we're missing the point. This isn't about us and our instinct for self-preservation. This goes much deeper than that. If we refuse to see that, well, like I often say, our tomorrows will be no better than our yesterdays. This is a problem of our civilisation - not how to get through a few weeks of confinement. And I never find political discussions depressing. Everything is political.

The Arcanum Without A Name (i.e. "death") must be given a name.

I actually agree with Diana here. I don’t feel I can post here because everything I’m experiencing and thinking as a black person at this time is intimately connected to the political situation right now. I’m actually afraid to leave my house now, even to check the mail. I imagine the police being called on me or suddenly appearing and taking their frustrations out on me. I hear police sirens that aren’t there. Even though I’m rather hidden in a relatively safe area and having been to one of the more “peaceful” (on the side of protesters...) protests in the US in my city and knowing that it’s contained to the downtown area, I’m still afraid. I’m afraid of retaliation. I’m afraid of being made an “example” of. I’m afraid. I’m afraid for black people in my community and in the rest of the country.

I’d like to be able to distract myself with discussions of tarot too, away from social media, away from all this chaos, and I absolutely have been for my sanity, but I can’t compartmentalize my experience either. Especially with something as personal as tarot. So I feel there’s a barrier here. It reminds me of what Abundant Life Tarot was saying. If this is a sanctuary where politics aren’t allowed to be discussed, at this time especially, I’m going to be tiptoeing on eggshells to the point of feeling dysphoric.

Anyway thanks Diana, and thanks for hearing me out.

[Joan Marie]

I’d like to be able to distract myself with discussions of tarot too, away from social media, away from all this chaos, and I absolutely have been for my sanity, but I can’t compartmentalize my experience either. Especially with something as personal as tarot. So I feel there’s a barrier here. It reminds me of what Abundant Life Tarot was saying. If this is a sanctuary where politics aren’t allowed to be discussed, at this time especially, I’m going to be tiptoeing on eggshells to the point of feeling dysphoric.

When I made the original post here, it was in response to COVID. I was seeing all sorts of things posted all over social media that weren't helpful to anyone. I was also overdosing on news and it didn't feel healthy.

Now, we are in a different and much worse situation. And like everybody I have been scrolling through everything, endlessly. I see all the videos. I read all the stories. And believe it or not I have a lot of skin in this game too. I am white and I live in Europe. But my entire family live in the US in cities you are reading about. Many people in my family are black. One was hospitalised on suicide-watch after seeing the video of George Floyd being murdered sent her into an emotional tailspin that triggered all sorts of things she's been through as a black woman in the US.

All of them are scared. I am scared. I scour social media constantly just to see if the people I love are still tweeting, still posting, so I know they are okay.

My son is using twitter to report from the streets of Las Vegas where he is out every night. When he lived in Oakland he did the same when Oscar Grant was murdered at the BART station, and the many other murders by police all over the US. He even ran for mayor of Oakland on a platform of police reform. My son was shot in the chest with pepper bullets that left burning bruises that lasted for days. He was teargassed and blinded and arrested twice. Yesterday he and his girlfriend, (who just got out of the hospital - she's better now and protesting is making her feel stronger) ran from rubber bullets and teargas.

My family in Omaha are under an 8pm curfew and subject to arrest if they leave their houses. Many of them are black. I got a tearful email this just this morning from my sister-in-law there. Meanwhile my brother's son is a cop there. Which is something else to deal with.

I'm not trying to run a children's playground here of happiness and light like I have my fingers in my ears going "la la la la". But here is the thing: When you look on twitter or facebook or wherever, every time someone posts something, an argument starts. And I don't want that here. I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to moderate it because for one thing I can promise you I will not be objective. I have strong feelings and beliefs and I can't pretend I don't. And if anybody thinks we're going to have an "All Lives Matter" discussion here you are mistaken.



I also REALLY need a place to go and rest my mind from the constant scrolling through what is constantly enraging me, scaring me, worrying me.

I can't be the only one. Sometimes it's nice to just look at some pretty cards and talk about other topics for even a few minutes. It's not just nice. It's self-care. It's like looking up at the sky. It's a palette cleanser for the mind, for the soul.

Right now on twitter it is 100% a discussion about the murders, the riots, and that is as it should be. I think it's beautiful it exists. All that live video direct from the streets is some of the only truth out there about what is really going on.

I totally get that anybody just can't bring themselves right now to engage in light discussion. It's hard. But I want people to be able to if they want. I want this to be the place people can go, even for a minute or two and chill out before they get back to the melee of this moment in time.

Stay strong everyone. We need you all. You're doing good work out there. Take care and be safe.



EDIT: Just saw this tweet from my girl in Vegas:

[BlueStar]

Hi Joan Marie and Astral Pasta's, I can see both your points of view (and my thoughts are with you both for your friends/family, and that you have to be there Astral Pasta. Stay safe!).

What's going on now, from COVID to the situation in the US is a lot, especially if you have loved ones involved, but also because of the constant stream of news, comments, information that you can be exposed to if you are online or watching the news.If you don't get away from it it can be overwhelming, and I think it's healthy to do that, otherwise it just causes a lot of mental and emotional stress. So needing a 'quite corner' so to speak to escape from it is definitely needed (wherever your corner may be for you). But on the other hand for those who do want to talk or vent a little about, it's nice to have somewhere that you can feel safe doing that.

If the space provided is supportive I think it wouldn't harm, like this forum. I think when people find a nice place like Joan Marie has built here, it's where they naturally will turn for some comfort, relief, support etc. Perhaps a separate thread for those wanting to discuss things, which would of course be optional for people to visit? Or perhaps we could share readings on the situations? We know how tarot/cartomancy can give valuable insight, which could actually be helpful. But I understand if no-one wants to because of the stress factor.

Just throwing out some ideas:)

Unfortunately Joan Marie, as it's your website you probably couldn't avoid see what's being written, so no quiet corner for you:( (is there perhaps someone else that could moderate it for you?) So from your point of view that probably is not favourable. In the end it's your website so if it would cause you more stress I think we should probably respect that:)

[Charlie Brown]

everything I’m experiencing and thinking as a black person at this time is intimately connected to the political situation right now.

I would also think that there's a distinction between general news and opinion on the one hand and personal content on the other. For example, AstralPasta, (and of course I can't speak for Joan) I think if you posted a reading/asked a question in a circle that dealt with what you're experiencing that that's very different from just repeating the kind of discussions that are happening on social media. Lots of tarot postings are people communicating their distress in one way or another. I think that's ok as long as it's presented in a way that's relevant to the site's mission. What some other people were posting was just going to turn this into Facebook pt. II.

[Charlie Brown]

If the space provided is supportive I think it wouldn't harm, like this forum. I think when people find a nice place like Joan Marie has built here, it's where they naturally will turn for some comfort, relief, support etc. Perhaps a separate thread for those wanting to discuss things, which would of course be optional for people to visit?

I think that's a bad idea because it makes it too easy to bleed into other portions of the site. What happens if/when, for example, someone says something like "I feel so invalidated by these protests. Don't all lives matter?" It's a level of ignorance that's going to make people feel rightly aggrieved but I don't think it's a level so bad or ill intentioned that they need to get driven off of a tarot site. Even just by posting this example, I'm opening the door to someone retorting "But DON'T all lives matter?" and then we're just back on facebook.

FYI, I'll be deleting any comments that try to turn this discussion into a rebuttal of my example. It's an example for demonstration.

Or perhaps we could share readings on the situations? We know how tarot/cartomancy can give valuable insight, which could actually be helpful.

Like I said in my last post, I think that that's totally fine, with the caveat that my personal opinion is that that needs to be rooted in people's individual experiences. A question like "How can I... Why am I..." is different from "Why does person or group X do Y?"

[Charlie Brown]

Here, I'll start:

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=1486&p=18894#p18894

[Joan Marie]

If the space provided is supportive I think it wouldn't harm, like this forum. I think when people find a nice place like Joan Marie has built here, it's where they naturally will turn for some comfort, relief, support etc. Perhaps a separate thread for those wanting to discuss things, which would of course be optional for people to visit? Or perhaps we could share readings on the situations? We know how tarot/cartomancy can give valuable insight, which could actually be helpful. But I understand if no-one wants to because of the stress factor.

I really do appreciate the comment and I take it on board. But the thing is, and I know this for a fact, not every person here is going to be agreeable all the time on political issues.

One reason the atmosphere here is so nice is because we stay on topic. Once you open it up, the entire character and atmosphere of the place changes. I think we have all seen at other forums how the "Open Chat" eventually starts to dominate the whole place.

One thing I work to avoid, for example, is the formation of cliques. Everyone hates cliques on forums. Off topic chats breed those. We do not want to start debating are vaccinations safe, is climate change real, etc. etc. I just can't do it. I don't want to do it.

It's not just about my stress or moderating. I've really thought about this a lot from the very beginning. And I think about it every day. Yes, I am trying to cultivate a certain atmosphere here and I have a very good idea what happens when that is not carefully maintained.

You guys have to believe me that I have a much wider overview of the membership here and what goes on and the different personalities. Maintaining a good vibe is trickier business than you might know. FYI- we had a very bad person here about 6 months ago who thought he could use this forum for his personal soapbox of political views. If you knew what he was on about I know you would thank me for not allowing it. It was some vile shit, but to him and probably many others, just his political opinion. Let's just say his take on the current situation in the US would not be welcome by most of you.

Once you start allowing political discussions, people will challenge you, will debate you and the next thing you know this is just another tarot facebook group where people come to get angry and troll each other.

But we do offer some places that may work for you. Check out Plato's Cave. It's wonderful place to discuss a lot of challenging things and ideas, using Tarot, and framing it as a philosophical discussion. And doing readings (in the My Readings section) is perfectly fine on whatever topic you like.

Yes I very much want to offer everyone here comfort, relief and support. But not in the form of political debate.

I am really sorry to the people who are disappointed. Truly. But I'm running out of ways to explain it.

[Joan Marie]

For example, AstralPasta, (and of course I can't speak for Joan) I think if you posted a reading/asked a question in a circle that dealt with what you're experiencing that that's very different from just repeating the kind of discussions that are happening on social media.

Thank you for this excellent example of how to frame a difficult topic in a way that not only fits well here, but would be so enriching and add to the quality of what we do here and give us a chance to work together and support each other.

[AstralPasta]

Hey y’all. I really appreciate the support and kindness y’all are sharing towards me and each other. Thank you for the bottom of my heart. And Joan Marie, I hadn’t realized this post was in relation to COVID originally. I’ve been pretty hair-sensitive and having trouble disengaging from news and such. I have this website and app blocking subscription called Freedom and I finally got it working on all my devices so that’s helped me calm down some today. I’m sorry that you’re worried for your family too, I hadn’t realized it was also very personally affecting you. It does help me feel like you understand my anxiety more intimately though. (Edit: I forgot to address , may your relative find peace and recover and may she find healing ! I’ll pray for her and your brave family members tonight! I’ll pray for their protection. My partner and I are going to find other ways besides donating and protesting to take action tonight. Finding ways to feel empowered amidst all this is so important.)

I also want this to place to feel like a sanctuary away from all the noise in the world. I’ve been trying to watch lighthearted videos on YouTube to distract myself but of course there’s clickbait inflammatory news on the homepage there too. Also it’s just complicated.... I thought about BlueStar’s idea and it made sense at first, but I can see where Joan Marie is coming from. I like Charlie Brown’s idea, that makes sense to me. I might do that using the next world tarot, which genuinely has been a real help the past few days, maybe even on my personal “journal” area. I feel a lot safer here now that I‘ve brought it up. I feel like I can trust you all more with my tender feelings at this moment. Thank you for being your awesome selves. Let’s keep this space tarot-centric And thanks Joan Marie for all your hard work in making this space feel like a sanctuary, behind the scenes and in communications with us. You’re a treasure to us all.