cleansing the deck

[Diana]

the idea of anthropomorphizing a Tarot deck (delightfully) appeals to the artistic and creative aspect of my personality.
It would make for a wonderful pivotal theme or subplot of a movie or book.

A bit like a creepy doll that comes alive in the night. Or a movie where the tarot figures come to life and battle it out in both their angelic and demonic forms. And all the alliances they make. And the plotting and the planning. Can you just picture the final epic battle ? All the magic and the spells and the sounds and the fury ? Lord of the Rings would seem paltry after that.

[stronglove]

But seriously, I’m still at a quandary about the whole cleansing thing.
I really want my deck to contain everything.

Everything.

Cool. So don't cleanse it!

TBH- I don't think you are in a quandary at all. You really sound like you have a very clear and strong feeling about what you think of all this cleansing business.

But I hope some people continue to share their thoughts on this. I'm finding the contributions of people who are open to it very interesting.

Don’t hold your breath joan marie, this thread and the people posting here have very successfully squashed any desire to share my thoughts. they are not interested in thoughts and experiences that are different from theirs. The fact that none of them have even the basic courtesy to reply to what we have been trying to get across speaks for itself. and the way any non-rational approach to the tarot and spirituality is being ridiculed will probably prevent anybody else from sharing their ‘irrational’ (read ‘stupid’) thoughts. I’ve had enough of this and am withdrawing from this intellectual pissing contest. bah!

[Papageno]

A bit like a creepy doll that comes alive in the night. Or a movie where the tarot figures come to life and battle it out in both their angelic and demonic forms. And all the alliances they make. And the plotting and the planning. Can you just picture the final epic battle ? All the magic and the spells and the sounds and the fury ? Lord of the Rings would seem paltry after that.

so now this thread has branched out yet again and actually belongs in the media/creativity forum.

This has gone way off track, so I'll start a new thread in Books, Art & Film.

[Diana]

Don’t hold your breath joan marie, this thread and the people posting here have very successfully squashed any desire to share my thoughts. they are not interested in thoughts and experiences that are different from theirs. The fact that none of them have even the basic courtesy to reply to what we have been trying to get across speaks for itself. and the way any non-rational approach to the tarot and spirituality is being ridiculed will probably prevent anybody else from sharing their ‘irrational’ (read ‘stupid’) thoughts. I’ve had enough of this and am withdrawing from this intellectual pissing contest. bah!

Goodness, I see no pissing contest in this thread. I read it through twice to make sure. I just see people giving their points of views. I see no one denigrating nor belittling anyone's beliefs. I see no ridicule nor disdain. Nor anything in that line.

DarkWing's original questioning was this :

Can someone define the “negative energy” they’re trying to remove from a tarot deck by knocking on it, storing it with a crystal, purifying in ‘moonlight’, or smudging, etc.?
Light, is the result of the alteration of matter (I'll allow a physicist to address this). Fire purifies by changing matter. (our life giving sun really is the depths of hell if you actually understand it). Light is matter, becoming energy.

Darkness – is nothing. No destruction, just the absence of light…or the absence of matter becoming energy.
Negative in energy terms, is a wave-form. In the case of electricity it’s returning to its source…what’s wrong with that?
Then there's entropy...

Even good and bad are terms of judgment. If “All is love”, then that would include the stuff we don’t like (the bad).
And if we love our enemies (because all is love), why would I want to clean myself from that action?
Seriously – What gives? What IS the negative that we’re so afraid of?

He was asking whether anyone could define what "negative energy" is. Not so much actually what people's practices are. Why are we afraid of that negative energy that may according to some remain embedded in our tarot decks ? Even DarkWing believes that all these energies are in his decks, because he wants them all. Contrary to me who thinks my cards are just inert pieces of cardboard with no energy and who doesn't like anthromorphising my decks.

I think everyone was being very civil in their answer. If you're hurt that no-one responded to your posts directly, I know how frustrating that can be when we put time and care into posting something and we feel rightly or wrongly that no-one has listened or responded. It's happened to me countless times and I'm sure to everyone who posts on message boards and we've all had that feeling. But a pissing contest ? No. Unless I'm blind and deaf. I think this thread is just fine. And it's a fair and legitimate question to ask "What is this negative energy that one is afraid of". Which I think still hasn't been answered properly. What is it and why are we afraid of it to the extent of wanting to cleanse one's decks ? Or do people, when cleansing, perhaps cleanse it of both "positive" and "negative" energy ? Is it to wipe the whole slate clean ?? I dunno, I'm genuinely asking here. Are only "good" energies kept when cleansing and only the "bad" ones swept out ? Or is it a full spring clean ? Now, I'm not being disdainful nor uppity when I ask this. It's a genuine question. What gets cleansed ?

Everyone's practices and rituals and creeds and beliefs are just fine. But that wasn't the issue at hand here. Which was "What IS the negative that we're so afraid of?"

No-one was pissing on anyone's lovely poetic gesture to put their crystals by the window in the moonlight and watch their beauty. Everyone loves beauty. And crystals in the moonlight are lovely indeed. Taking walks in the sunshine or the rain or the moonshine too. Most invigorating (therefore energetic) and healing at times. No-one would deny that.

[Joan Marie]

I need a cup of coffee before I can properly reply to this. Can I please ask for the chance to make the next post on this thread?

[Joan Marie]

Good morning everyone!

It's a new day.

let me make a suggestion.
First, seriously, close your eyes and take a deep breath.

Now, I took some time to write this so please don't rush through it when you read it.

Let's begin by trying listening TO each other, not AT each other.

Diana, I am not picking on you but I am going to use your most recent post in this thread as an example.
It is an example of exactly what stronglove was talking about.

Stronglove expressed, very clearly, exactly the frustration being felt by many people not only on this thread but in others as well. And your response was to basically tell her she's wrong and then to go on to list all the ways she's wrong and to restate the situation for her as if she didn't understand it.

If you look through the entire thread, you will see that everything she said had been previously expressed by others, including myself, and all ignored.

Now, you do not have to agree. But can you possibly understand how going directly to "My-goodness-what-are-you-talking-about-you-couldn't-be-more-wrong" is exemplary of exactly the attitude she was trying to describe?

Most people who have faced this kind of dismissive response, just go away. Post pics on instagram and basta.

We all read and understood DarkWing's question. It was not a question really, it was a challenge to change his mind. Kind of off-putting really, but people tried and were either totally ignored or, as someone put it to me, "listening to disagree." Couching your statements in "I'm listening" doesn't work if you clearly are not.

Can you see how tedious that can be?

There is a real problem here at CoT. And that problem is the proliferation of the toxic culture that we saw at AT.

A culture where people forget that we are a community of wonderfully diverse individuals with all kinds of knowledge and experience and backgrounds and personalities and a willingness to share and be vulnerable. But all that gets lost in the "prove-me-wrong" atmosphere where every single idea or thought is taken as a challenge to one's basic beliefs. No one wants to be vulnerable in that environment. Consequently, the forum becomes more and more bland as voices of diversity leave.

There is room enough here for absolutely everyone. I have purchased for us a web-hosting package with unlimited bandwidth, so think of this place as an enormous house.

If you find people speaking on a topic you are not interested in or truly know nothing about, go to another one. Or start another one. There is never any purpose to ridicule or denigrate someone's thoughts or beliefs just for the sake of positioning yourself in the conversation.

Historical knowledge of the tarot is wonderful and interesting. It is not the only thing though. And no one has all the answers because there are new questions every day.

I did not build this forum for one group of people to lord over the rest. I will shut it down today if that happens.

It is important that you understand that stronglove's statement was the tip of the iceberg of what I have been hearing from people.
You have to accept that this is a thing. A thing we need to correct ASAFP (the F is for "feasibly" )because I will not have people turning away from this forum I've worked so hard to build because a few voices have have taken it upon themselves to be the arbiters of all that is true.

We can be so much more. So much more. Have some imagination and try to picture a forum completely unlike AT. 20 years of online life has witnessed an evolution. No one is interested anymore in passive-aggressive stances and arguments. No one wants to be shut-down every time they open their mouth. And we are missing out on A LOT because of this.

We can flourish now. We can grow and learn from each other. We can listen to each other without comment when comment isn't necessary or productive. We can give each other the space to express ourselves. We can have fun.

I would really like to see an end to this thread now.

The best response to it would be to show that you have taken on board what I am trying to say here, really thought about it, and apply it to your future interactions with others in this forum.
That would be an expression of love and support for this community, for each other, for the tarot, and for ourselves.