TdM: Diana & iMoodyCrab

[Charlie Brown]

Here is your thread.

[Diana]

Hey there iMoodyCrab !

What can I do for you this month ?

[iMoodyCrab]

Hey Diana,

So so so sorry, I totally missed this thread. I'm still getting accustomed to this site. But yay! I found you!

My question or rather genuine concern lately:
What is my path with tarot reading? Or rather, if it's possible to answer, am I on the right path?

Separate note 1:
What would you like to ask?

Separate note 2:
Thank by you Charlie Brown for pairing us up... She was the first one to welcome me on cultoftarot, it's such a pleasure to have this opportunity.

[Diana]

Hey Diana,

So so so sorry, I totally missed this thread. I'm still getting accustomed to this site. But yay! I found you!

My question or rather genuine concern lately:
What is my path with tarot reading? Or rather, if it's possible to answer, am I on the right path?

Separate note 1:
What would you like to ask?

Separate note 2:
Thank by you Charlie Brown for pairing us up... She was the first one to welcome me on cultoftarot, it's such a pleasure to have this opportunity.

Hiya. Don't apologise ! This thread is very recent. You caught it at the start.

That's an interesting question and I'll be happy to do a reading on it. Next week I have loads of time so it'll be done probably early next week.

My question : I've recently initiated a study here on Cult of Tarot, my tarot cyberhome, of how to read the pips in the Tarot of Marseilles, said Tarot being the love of my life. I'm very unsure as to whether this study - the way I approach it and the way I've sort of outlined it - is of interest to the members of the Cult of Tarot. i.e. whether it's suited for here - whether it has its place. It's based on a method I used when I used to give Tarot classes a long time ago and the method I use for reading the cards. Someone else who would have initiated this study would probably have used a different approach.

So my question is : Is the study group that I have initiated worth it ? I'm not putting into question whether the approach is of worth or not. I know it is. But does it have a place on the Cult of Tarot - or will it not really garner much interest ? The fashionable way of reading the TdM is now it seems to read it more "intuitively" (this seems to be the new fashion in other tarot traditions too I've noticed - it's easier I think. One doesn't have to study anymore - it's sort of Instant Coffee. The tarot is becoming a sort of oracle card deck and to hell with its structure.) I'm more into the traditional way of reading it - the way it's done more or less in the French speaking tarotsphere, with a few additions of my own. Also, people like to read books and there are books which already explain how to read the TdM and the pips - people often speak of Caitlin Matthews for example. I've no idea what her approach is - if she's managed to clear out the RWS fog which may have infiltrated it. (I've never read any English books on the TdM - only the French ones, so I have no idea if I would like what the English books say, if I'd find them good, or whether I'd be sighing and spluttering with indignation at the sometimes nonsense and insanities. I assume I would often. There are loads of that kind of book also in French though - which will be burned most likely in a great bonfire if the Great Tarot Council in the Sky ever decides to start an inquisition.)

Do you get what I'm saying ?

I don't really want to know whether I should take a different approach - this is the one I feel very comfortable with because I know it and the one I would use if ever I write a book. The few threads have not gone completely unnoticed, and some of the contributions have added greats riches and for that I'm grateful - but I have the feeling the interest is very minimal so it's maybe not something people come here to look for.

I still have myself a lot to learn, and I'm also hoping that I will learn lots of things myself. I have already in fact with the contributions by the couple of members who posted. I'm not claiming to have Universal Knowledge.

[iMoodyCrab]

I bow down to you (like in yoga child pose) oh learned one!
Please accept me as a humble student.

What you are trying to teach is EXACTLY what I seek. Traditional tarot. It's so so so difficult to find a course on that.

I fear my answer will be biased, but yes, I get the gist of your requirements and I'll do my very best to read TdM cards.
FYI - this will be my very first TdM reading ever. So please excuse my shortage of knowledge. I'm very willing to learn though, and I'm already searching for the topic you mentioned.

[Diana]

Oh no, you won't be biased. You'll be guided by the tarot.

I know you're new to all this. Use this as a learning experience. Don't put any pressure on yourself to perform. No-one is here to judge your reading abilities. What is clear will be clear, what is clear won't be. And we'll sort it all out together.

[Diana]

My question or rather genuine concern lately:
What is my path with tarot reading? Or rather, if it's possible to answer, am I on the right path?

So, I took your second question : Is iMoodyCrab on the right path on her Tarot journey ? The question is a bit ambiguous but I think the Tarot is clever enough to sort it out and give us the answer we are seeking. The Tarot knows how to read between the lines and even sees the invisible.

As the Key card in this spread, I chose Le Bateleur. Because it is my firm conviction since forever that in the TdM, it is the Bateleur who makes the journey through the arcana.

So I followed the instructions that Charlie Brown gave and the five cards are as follows : (I apologise for the bad quality of the photo.)

King of Coins / Three of Cups /Le Bateleur I/ L'Amoureux (Lover) / Empress III

The Bateleur is looking to the past. The past are the pairs King of Coins and the Three of Cups. So we can assume here that the Tarot is showing that you are ready to put that past behind you and move on to other matters.

The King of Coins seems to indicate that your grounding in the Tarot, your first steps are solid. You have not got caught up in any mumble jumble and superstition. The Coins point here to the Roots of something. What is firmly planted in the ground. The King of Coins is also looking at the Bateleur with much affection. Sort of like a father would say with some pride "you've done well my son".

But with the 3 of Cups you've also managed to understand the Heart of the Tarot. You've touched on its splendour and its mysterious beauty and wisdom. The 3 of Cups along with Le Bateleur also points to the forums you've joined recently in order to expand your knowledge and also to commune with others. You reached out to a wider community and in fact, you also have a lot to offer to the community because your intentions are good and pure.

So the pair of these cards together show that what you have undertaken in the past was healthy and sound and will stand you in good stead.

Regarding the 3 of Cups, it would be good to notice that there is another number 3 - very powerful - that ends this spread. We can already assume that there is possibility to make huge strides, and rapidly.

But now we come to the second pair of cards. The Lover to start with (singular I remind you, contrary to the Lovers plural of the RWS and therefore cannot be compared).

As the Bateleur is in the middle of this spread, let's notice that on the Bateleur's table, there are a huge amount of little objects. Knives, goblet, acorn, a bag with something that may be a scarf, plus what is probably dice and coins. What must the Bateleur choose for his next trick? None of these objects are very evolved nor developed. The knife is not yet a sword, the goblet is not yet a cup. But the potential is there for them to become mighty objects.

The Lover too is being asked to make a choice. The cherub has one arrow and it strikes the heart of the Lover - once it strikes, the Lover will make his choice. He could choose even to follow a completely unexpected path - and walk away and go and emigrate to China.

I think the Tarot is indicating here that you should focus for a while at least on only one tradition and not hop around from Thoth to RWS to TdM and from one Indie deck to another. Choose from the tools on your table the object that you love the BEST. The one that speaks to your heart more than any other. One that you think you could fall in love with even.

On either side of the young Lover (who has forgotten to put on his trousers - lol - ) is a younger woman and an older woman. Alain Bocher, a French tarologist and tarot author, has a fascinating theory that they are actually men - I can't remember if I've posted about this or not. But that is of no importance here. It's more the age that we are speaking of. The old tradition and the young tradition. You're not being helped much by the two characters - they both seem to be encouraging the Lover (who is also our Bateleur) to choose the other. The Bateleur seems to be moving in the direction of the younger woman... but the arrow has not yet touched his heart. It is still uncertain.

Now the Lover card is certainly about choices in this spread (it isn't always). But the key word here is Love(r). Which tradition do you think you could learn to Love, iMoodyCrab ? Which tradition will make your heart skip a beat when you see your cards ? If there were no angel taking up half of the Lover card, I would say that there is no harm in being a polygamist and dividing and sharing one's attention. However, the angel has only one arrow - and you have only one heart which he is aiming at.

Once you've chosen which road you want to take - which should be luminous because Love is luminous - I think you'll quickly reach the Empress stage of someone who is secure and confident in her growing abilities and understanding of this great book that is the Tarot. You could really become a very good tarot reader and someone who has a good understanding of things which are sometimes not on the surface.

The Empress is even looking ahead to her future. She knows it's not over and she's looking forward to it. She's quite a creative woman, the Empress and so this is right up her street.

So the Tarot doesn't only tell you that you have up to now taken the right path. She also tells you that now you are at a crossroad and that one can't travel two or more roads at the same time, or be in two trains travelling to different destinations.

Le Bateleur is always travelling. They say that it's not the destination that counts, but the journey. But every journey the Bateleur takes requires an itinerary of some sort. Otherwise it would be the Fool's journey, which it is not.

[iMoodyCrab]

OMG that was a beautiful read! Do you teach professionally? I'd be very willing to learn from you.

Ever since I got the TdM, I feel this deck to be a calling. I want to learn TdM over and above all else.

Thank you so so so so so much for the detailed reading. I'll submit mine for you tonight. I just hope I do justice to it.

[Diana]

OMG that was a beautiful read! Do you teach professionally? I'd be very willing to learn from you.

Ever since I got the TdM, I feel this deck to be a calling. I want to learn TdM over and above all else.

Thank you so so so so so much for the detailed reading. I'll submit mine for you tonight. I just hope I do justice to it.

I'm glad this reading resonated with you. Thanks for the feedback !

I don't read professionally. I did once a long time ago. I combined it with Bach Flower Therapy. And I did give some Tarot classes also at one time. They were loads of fun.

I'm looking forward to your reading. I'm sure you'll do justice to it. I'm feeling very confident. And as you want to learn TdM over and above all else, I'm in very good company !!!

[iMoodyCrab]

Dear Diana,

PS: I'll be following this method (as linked by Charlie Brown) for reading for today: viewtopic.php?f=78&hilit=charlie%20brow ... d5a4ef0939

I was so confused how to word your question for the cards, that I ended up thinking of 2 different tarot cards which I wanted as my key card and simply told my deck to pick for me. My first choice was Le Pape, and sure enough, the deck picked him (that too from a bunch of other cards).

For your question, I shared your concern with the deck, told them about your traditional approach to TdM and your course (I sort of talk to my decks), and simply asked them for advice and guidance. Below is their response.

I chose Le Pape as the key card for his characteristics of being a traditional teacher/spiritual guide (please excuse his gender for the purpose of this reading). Which is what I believe you are with your teaching thread.

Reyne de Deniers + 9 of Cups
RdD = warm, welcoming, supportive
9C = personal integrity & fulfillment, final stage of development

If anyone can breakthrough impossible projects, it's this queen. She's resourceful, determined and yet kind, warm and welcoming. You wish to create a very accepting environment for new and existing TdM readers to bond, discuss, exchange card meaning and simply be supportive of each other. You are doing this out of selflessness, with pure intention. It brings a sense of fulfillment to you. I believe the 9C is suggesting your thread has reached it's final stages of development and that it is already fulfilling it's purpose.

2 D’épée + Valet de Coupe
2S = hidden risk, alternative decision
VdC = carefree/innocent/optimistic inner child

You took a risk starting the thread, it doesn't seem to have been an easy decision, but it's become your baby now. 2S indicates a certain level of stubbornness to see or accept the reality of a matter. There's a need to balance the intellectual.

When I keep cards 1+5 next to each other, I see an innocent child expectantly looking in the direction of 2S, waiting for a decision. Perhaps all you need to add is a touch of creativity, which is already existing in your inner child. Perhaps the cards are asking you have confidence and just asking you to hold on to a ray of hope.

Conclusion
To answer your very direct question, is the thread worth the effort? Perhaps not now, not in this very moment. But it will be... your welcoming positive energies will attract the right crowd. An intellectually balanced crowd.

Hope the above reading is helpful in someway. I couldn't read in as much detail as you though.

Namaste

[iMoodyCrab]

The King of Coins seems to indicate that your grounding in the Tarot, your first steps are solid. You have not got caught up in any mumble jumble and superstition. The Coins point here to the Roots of something. What is firmly planted in the ground. The King of Coins is also looking at the Bateleur with much affection. Sort of like a father would say with some pride "you've done well my son".

This is so sweet. So I have completed my Diploma in Tarot Reading, but RWS course. I'm not looking at TdM with very fresh eyes and trying really hard to not let my RWS teaching cloud my judgment.

You reached out to a wider community and in fact, you also have a lot to offer to the community because your intentions are good and pure.

I started off with another site/forum. But that's a very RWS centric space. In my attempt to know more about TdM, I stumbled upon this community.

I think the Tarot is indicating here that you should focus for a while at least on only one tradition and not hop around from Thoth to RWS to TdM and from one Indie deck to another. Choose from the tools on your table the object that you love the BEST. The one that speaks to your heart more than any other. One that you think you could fall in love with even.

This is one answer I can give very confidently. I want to learn TdM... it fascinates me. When I do reading for self, this is becoming the most talkative deck ever! But my ability to decipher the meanings still lag behind.

I totally intend to nag you till you say yes to taking me on as your apprentice

[Diana]

PS: I'll be following this method (as linked by Charlie Brown) for reading for today: viewtopic.php?f=78&hilit=charlie%20brow ... d5a4ef0939

Oh, did I do the spread wrong again for my reading ? I realised last month that I'd also not followed it strictly. I don't do it on purpose. I really think I'm doing it right.

I was so confused how to word your question for the cards, that I ended up thinking of 2 different tarot cards which I wanted as my key card and simply told my deck to pick for me. My first choice was Le Pape, and sure enough, the deck picked him (that too from a bunch of other cards).

For your question, I shared your concern with the deck, told them about your traditional approach to TdM and your course (I sort of talk to my decks), and simply asked them for advice and guidance. Below is their response.

I chose Le Pape as the key card for his characteristics of being a traditional teacher/spiritual guide (please excuse his gender for the purpose of this reading). Which is what I believe you are with your teaching thread.

Good choice. Pope is tradition. Papesse would have also fitted, but she would be more gnosis. I approve of your choice. Gender is not important in this case of course. We're talking archetypes here.

Reyne de Deniers + 9 of Cups
RdD = warm, welcoming, supportive
9C = personal integrity & fulfillment, final stage of development

If anyone can breakthrough impossible projects, it's this queen. She's resourceful, determined and yet kind, warm and welcoming. You wish to create a very accepting environment for new and existing TdM readers to bond, discuss, exchange card meaning and simply be supportive of each other. You are doing this out of selflessness, with pure intention. It brings a sense of fulfillment to you. I believe the 9C is suggesting your thread has reached it's final stages of development and that it is already fulfilling it's purpose.

I'm not feeling very determined anymore. On discussions boards, I tend to give up when a response doesn't come. Most people do I think, it's normal. Not everyone does though. Some people slog on regardless. I always scold myself when I start feeling despondent and say "are you serving the cause or is the cause serving you?". But that's a bit harsh I reply and answer "you've always got some lofty quotation, don't you. Does it make you feel all clever or what?". (You talk to your cards - I talk to myself). What's the point of serving tea if no-one drinks it and doesn't like the taste I tell the Diana whom I'm arguing with. For instance, I absolute hate any tea with jasmine in it. I feel like spitting it out if I swallow some by mistake. But view the amount of teas you can find with jasmine in them, there are loads of people who must love the stuff. So maybe the tea I'm giving is not palatable, that's all.

Like I told you, I know what I have to offer is worth something. And could be hugely developed if it were fertilised by others. All this just needs is the right place and the right time as you point out. Also one doesn't go into a jazz club and start jamming rock-n-roll or ska. Things have to fit.

But I really want to continue my project. In some form or other.

2 D’épée + Valet de Coupe
2S = hidden risk, alternative decision
VdC = carefree/innocent/optimistic inner child

You took a risk starting the thread, it doesn't seem to have been an easy decision, but it's become your baby now. 2S indicates a certain level of stubbornness to see or accept the reality of a matter. There's a need to balance the intellectual.

When I keep cards 1+5 next to each other, I see an innocent child expectantly looking in the direction of 2S, waiting for a decision. Perhaps all you need to add is a touch of creativity, which is already existing in your inner child. Perhaps the cards are asking you have confidence and just asking you to hold on to a ray of hope.

I didn't want it to be my baby. I was hoping it would become a real community effort. And that I would just be the one to kickstart it. Someone has to be the one to launch something - like in a football game. Someone has to do the first kick of the ball. And also I did make a commitment and confirmed to Joan Marie that I'd do it so she could mention it in a newsletter - because I wanted to make the commitment. It seemed like a very good idea at the time. And also something concrete to do at Cult of Tarot and long term. I need to study. I can't just rest on my laurels. And I enjoyed writing those posts in the threads that I've already started. It gave me much pleasure.

But I didn't plan that I would be starting all the threads in this particular study. I don't want to be a leader either. I don't like leaders. I'm an anarchist at heart. I can watch over it to make sure it sticks to the original idea - sort of like a guard dog - one of those on the Moon card who are great pals of the scruffy dog in the Fool arcanum. I don't mind playing a tarotic role. Everyone plays a role of some sort. The whole world's a stage isn't it, according to the Bard.

(By the way, if I hear one more person saying that the dogs are barking at the Moon in the TdM, I'll probably break down and weep. DOGS DON'T BARK WITH THEIR TONGUES HANGING OUT!)

I don't know how more creative I can get by challenging for instance one of the most traditional and only way of reading the Cups suit, i.e. that it may not have much to do with emotions. I've also challenged the Swords/Batons usual associated elements. But it's true, I'm not the most creative of persons. But I don't know how to be something other than myself.

I'm trying to discover the TdM pips almost from scratch. Because I think there has been a lot of things taken for granted which perhaps should now be put into question. There are maybe things we have been doing wrong out of habit and we believe too many things that people have written who themselves have believed what other people have written and copied what they said in other words, and we don't take the time to analyse and really examine and observe. Some maybe should be overturned and overruled even.
I reckon that's pretty creative.

I didn't want to redesign the wheel. It's been redesigned a million times. So I wanted to start something a bit different. And it had to remain as faithful as possible and to the TdM. I sort of wanted to strip it down to its bones.

Conclusion
To answer your very direct question, is the thread worth the effort? Perhaps not now, not in this very moment. But it will be... your welcoming positive energies will attract the right crowd. An intellectually balanced crowd.

Hope the above reading is helpful in someway. I couldn't read in as much detail as you though.

Your reading has been very helpful indeed. I wouldn't even want to add to it or anything. Except that the Queen of Deniers is not looking in the right direction. In fact, no-one is really looking at anyone. They all seem sort of wrapped up in their world.

I've planted a seed. If I planted it on fertile ground, it'll grow of its own accord. Maybe it will even be revived one day.

Thank you so much !!!

[Diana]

So I have completed my Diploma in Tarot Reading, but RWS course. I'm not looking at TdM with very fresh eyes and trying really hard to not let my RWS teaching cloud my judgment.

What is this Diploma in Tarot Reading ? Who issues it after which course ?

Yes, don't let the RWS interfere. Pretend you're learning a new alphabet. Like Cyrillic or something. Some of the letters in Cyrillic look the same as our alphabet but are pronounced completely differently. No connection whatsoever.

I started off with another site/forum. But that's a very RWS centric space. In my attempt to know more about TdM, I stumbled upon this community.

A number of members here are also members of the other place. I'm a member too but haven't posted recently. I have the username Marigold over there. When I joined here, I was also Marigold, but I changed it later to my real name.

This is one answer I can give very confidently. I want to learn TdM... it fascinates me. When I do reading for self, this is becoming the most talkative deck ever! But my ability to decipher the meanings still lag behind.

I totally intend to nag you till you say yes to taking me on as your apprentice

You rock if you love the TdM. Everyone who loves the TdM rocks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zju6KbP_1xY

As to the apprentice thing. I don't take apprentices. Only masters take apprentices. But I do open threads called "Reading the Pips".

[Papageno]

OMG that was a beautiful read!

yes indeed, that reading was quite elegant.

[iMoodyCrab]

Dear Diana,

If I may take the liberty, apologies if I'm crossing a line, but perhaps the creativity can be you writing a book?

I love the way you write. Your words flow... there's an unedited rawness to it. Perhaps publishing a book outlining traditional meanings of the cards. I know I would buy it.

You understand French, and write in English beautifully too. Don't translate necessarily, but from my perspective, for whom Eng itself is a third language, and French no where close to being an option, I know how much someone like me appreciate a your explanations.

One of my getting started books for tarot was "The Ultimate Guide to Tarot Meanings by Brigit Esselmont"
It's a nice simple book, nothing outwardly fancy and simple language too.

It's just a thought I'm sharing. I've been reading your threads, it's all fascinating to read... write a book! I'll be your first customer

[Charlie Brown]

She does write very nicely, doesn't she.

[Diana]

If I may take the liberty, apologies if I'm crossing a line, but perhaps the creativity can be you writing a book?

No lines crossed at all. Thank you for your post and your encouraging words.

I will be writing a book. After your reading, I really gave it a lot of thought. I doubt I'll send it to a publisher though, I prefer to put it online for free. Publishers publish books from people who have credentials and I don't have that kind. And as I'm not wanting to make money out of it, an online pdf would be a good solution. I wrote the draft of the introduction yesterday and this weekend I'm going to start on the first chapter. Also if it's a book, one needs to give up one's copyright and everything. I prefer not to copyright. I start out with the principle that ideas don't belong to anyone. I don't even mind if people "steal" my ideas and don't credit me. As long as the words get out there that I want to share, I'm happy.

I'll write it in English first and then maybe translate it into French.

Thanks for your support iMoodyCrab. They warmed my heart which was feeling a bit blue.

[iMoodyCrab]

What is this Diploma in Tarot Reading ? Who issues it after which course ?

I just realized I never answered this question. I enrolled onto a course with Centre of Excellence for a Tarot Course. Its very basic learning though, and doesn't exactly teach reading for others. Just card and their meanings. But it felt nice to have completed the course. It doesn't qualify as a reader per se, but it's nice to be certified (psychological effect)