Cult of Tarot Forum

Seeing the World: Tarot Signposts on the Path to Perception is a major recent translation of Jean-Claude Flornoy’s Le pelerinage des bateleurs. The following is a pastiche of observations that I made during and after reading the book.

Part One blends fact and speculation in presenting the Legend and History of the Tarot. As far as origin stories or Tarot myths are concerned, this has to be my favorite so far. Flornoy’s basic thesis is that the Tarot is a repository of the traditional knowledge recorded in graphic form of the exiled craftsmen of the Compagnonnage. Essentially, they present a record on paper of the same knowledge that was recorded in stone within the architecture of the Cathedrals (as you can read about in Fulcanelli). As such, there is much in this book that may appeal to Freemasons and others interested in esoteric organizations. I was recently inspired to look more closely into Maître Jacques, the legendary founder of the Compagnonnage, based on the anecdotes on his website. One of the best sources in English that I encountered was Chapter V “The Companionage, or Les Compagnons du Tour de France” of Gould’s History of Freemasonry Throughout the World, Volume 1.

In Part Two Flornoy develops his idea that the Tarot was developed by a descendant of the Compagnonnage who assumed the personnnage of a Muslim and adopted the framework of the Jewish Kabbalah as a pattern to produce a series of Christian images. He believes that the Tarot bears a superficial structural relationship and aim to the Kabbalah but ultimately departs from it in methodology by communicating in images rather than words. This paragraph summarizes his views in this Chapter very nicely,

The Tarot emerged out of the science of building construction. And it is the building of the inner man that it teaches, step-by-step. Its images depict the various states of energy as they circulate in the body, the vitality, the thirst to exist, the impulse to radiate. It is a philosophy of stages of action that communicates with the unconscious through images and the alchemy of color.

It seems that Flornoy consistently flirts with occultism and spirituality in his ideas regarding the Tarot but never quite reaches these domains, instead taking refuge in psychology as something of a more sober approach.

Ultimately, I had mixed feelings toward the book. In addition to much that is of value, he made occasional references to new age terms and subjects such as NDEs and rebirthing that I don’t find interesting. The further I read in his book, the more I was reminded of why I stopped reading occult books many years ago. Each promises to provide the secret key to untold riches but most of the time is spent wading through the mud looking for the occasional nugget of gold. Each tarot author seems to come equipped with his or her own vision of the key to the tarot that distorts the immediate experience of looking at the cards.

He also seemed to succumb to the problem of systematization. While the journey toward mastery possesses intrinsic interest as a conceptual framework, it was frequently employed to force interpretations that are not immediately evident in the images. A good example is the description provided of La Papesse when he stated that she “personifies the artisan and the farmer. Her element is earth.” It is possible to read this into the card if you have a destination already in mind, but I don’t think that some of these ideas are intrinsic to the images.

On the other hand, some of these approaches yield unexpected fruit as when he proposed a symbolic key to the colors of the Noblet in the traditional “jingle” of the Compagnons du Devoir. Although there may be some historical validity to the speculation that this poem was at the background of the mind of the traditional craftsman as he worked, I suspect that he was generalizing from his own personal experience, and it was moreso to his own mind that he was referring thereby disclosing some of the personal details of his creative process and inspiration.

When faced with such a prominently displayed image of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life in a work on the Tarot, my normal reaction is to promptly close the book and return it to the shelf, but I have such respect for Flornoy’s artistry that I suspended my normal judgements to give him a fair reading and I realized that each of these things has contributed in some way to his remarkable recreations.

The book is available from the Letarot Artisan’s Boutique. Most of the main points of the book are also included in the essays featured on the author’s website The Tarot of Marseilles and the French Tradition. Finally, complete scans of his carefully reconstructed Noblet, Dodal, and Vieville decks are available on the World Web Playing Cards Museum courtesy of the author.

Desmond wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 00:15 Flornoy’s basic thesis is that the Tarot is a repository of the traditional knowledge recorded in graphic form of the exiled craftsmen of the Compagnonnage. Essentially, they present a record on paper of the same knowledge that was recorded in stone within the architecture of the Cathedrals (as you can read about in Fulcanelli). As such, there is much in this book that may appeal to Freemasons and others interested in esoteric organizations. I was recently inspired to look more closely into Maître Jacques, the legendary founder of the Compagnonnage, based on the anecdotes on his website. One of the best sources in English that I encountered was Chapter V “The Companionage, or Les Compagnons du Tour de France” of Gould’s History of Freemasonry Throughout the World, Volume 1.

I think this theory is worth taking seriously. I too have always suspected that the Tarot and the Compagnonnage are related. I don't see how it could be otherwise.

In Part Two Flornoy develops his idea that the Tarot was developed by a descendant of the Compagnonnage who assumed the personnnage of a Muslim and adopted the framework of the Jewish Kabbalah as a pattern to produce a series of Christian images. He believes that the Tarot bears a superficial structural relationship and aim to the Kabbalah but ultimately departs from it in methodology by communicating in images rather than words. This paragraph summarizes his views in this Chapter very nicely,

The Muslim connection seems a bit tenuous - even if it was a fake Muslim. That sounds a bit like science-fiction.

Thanks so much for your notes and comments. Very helpful indeed. I hope my local library stocks his book as I don't feel like purchasing it.

Just wanted to add that the son of some friends of mine joined a stonebuilders' corporation. And travels around France accordingly. It still exists and I read that there is a resurgence of interest for this tradition amongst young people.

Thank you for posting this Desmond, don't be shy to keep posting this kind of stuff. It's very informative and written pleasantly packed with interesting new leads.

Desmond wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 00:15 Each tarot author seems to come equipped with his or her own vision of the key to the tarot that distorts the immediate experience of looking at the cards.

These many perspectives do however outline the scope of what Tarot is. I'm still developing my views and find keeping track of all the approaches and genetics of Tarot quite challenging. I'm still hovering over it a bit seeing where my path leads and reading 'opinions' helps

You mentioned Kabbalah prompting you to return a book to the shelf; Tarot and Kabbalah don't mix? I'm wondering this since reading into Thoth. I get the astrological correspondence part, just when tied in with Kabbalah I tend to doubt.

M

Monk wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 22:14 You mentioned Kabbalah prompting you to return a book to the shelf; Tarot and Kabbalah don't mix? I'm wondering this since reading into Thoth. I get the astrological correspondence part, just when tied in with Kabbalah I tend to doubt.

Greetings Monk,

I explained my perspective on this in my bio:

“Part of the problem with reading the occult Tarot is that it was relegated to a filing cabinet of correspondences and keywords such that the images themselves became dispensable. Using the modus operandi of the occultists, one could easily replace the the cards with Hebrew letters, numbers, and astrological glyphs to obtain the same result in a mechanical reading of keywords. Lon Milo Duquette’s Tarot of Ceremonial Magick (which evolved from just such a series of filing cards) is a good example of the logical consequence of this situation.”

In short, with the occult tarot, one is no longer reading the classic images and instead reacting to the associations that have been built up around them. Because the images do not naturally demonstrate occult frameworks, a whole host of decks have sprung up which seek to rectify the tarot and restore its lost symbolism. Further decks also spring up seeking to rectify these rectifications or to give them new artistic expressions.

The Waite-Smith deck is largely responsible for our current predicament. Waite taught that the tarot was an artistic rendition of the universal Secret Doctrine (of Alchemy, Kabalism, Astrology, Ceremonial Magic, and Freemasonry) and issued Smith’s cards as “restored and rectified” presentations correlating to the system of correspondences that he learned in the Golden Dawn. The Case-Burns deck is a good example of a rectification of Waite’s rectification.

Each of these sets demonstrates the centrality of the designer’s understanding of an underlying framework of associations. Working with decks like these, one is directed toward an understanding and engagement with the doctrine such that the images themselves become arbitrary.

Personally, I believe that the imagery and iconicity of the Marseilles Tarot is intrinsically beautiful, rather than extrinsically meaningful, and that the canons of proportion according to which they were constructed are far superior to any occultist doctrines that later became ascribed to them.

Take Care,
Desmond

Desmond wrote: ↑21 Jan 2020, 16:13

Monk wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 22:14 You mentioned Kabbalah prompting you to return a book to the shelf; Tarot and Kabbalah don't mix? I'm wondering this since reading into Thoth. I get the astrological correspondence part, just when tied in with Kabbalah I tend to doubt.

Greetings Monk,

I explained my perspective on this in my bio:

“Part of the problem with reading the occult Tarot is that it was relegated to a filing cabinet of correspondences and keywords such that the images themselves became dispensable. Using the modus operandi of the occultists, one could easily replace the the cards with Hebrew letters, numbers, and astrological glyphs to obtain the same result in a mechanical reading of keywords. Lon Milo Duquette’s Tarot of Ceremonial Magick (which evolved from just such a series of filing cards) is a good example of the logical consequence of this situation.”

In short, with the occult tarot, one is no longer reading the classic images, instead reacting to the associations that have been built up around them. Because the images do not naturally demonstrate occult frameworks, a whole host of decks has sprung up which seek to rectify the tarot and restore its lost symbolism. Further decks also spring up seeking to rectify these rectifications or to give them new artistic expressions.

The Waite-Smith deck is largely responsible for our current predicament. Waite taught that the tarot was an artistic rendition of the universal Secret Doctrine (of Alchemy, Kabalism, Astrology, Ceremonial Magic, and Freemasonry) and issued Smith’s cards as “restored and rectified” presentations correlating to the system of correspondences that he learned in the Golden Dawn. The Case-Burns deck is a good example of a rectification of Waite’s rectification.

Each of these sets demonstrates the centrality of the designer’s understanding of an underlying framework of associations. Working with decks like these, one is directed toward an understanding and engagement with the doctrine such that the images themselves become arbitrary.

Personally, I believe that the imagery and iconicity of the Marseilles Tarot is intrinsically beautiful, rather than extrinsically meaningful, and that the canons of proportion according to which they were constructed are far superior to any occultist doctrines that later became ascribed to them.

Take Care,
Desmond

Thank You Desmond,

I see your point and how you mean it. This actually helped me a lot again. I have been looking into a system that reflects my approach and understanding what makes us personally, our society, species tick. Diana pointed me to Thoth a while ago and I started reading into it. Contrary to you I did find a lot of confirmations in there that support me on my path. Which is perfectly okay. It is of great value that you mentioned that you feel certain decks can be 'trusted' visually since their original meaning still is accessible through undistorted images.(provided I understood you correct) I however have been constantly wondering about what kind of system works behind he cards. I have always felt there was an invisible cycle going on, A huge clock work. The images in GD and TDM inspire me but I find it hard to tie them in together. It was only through Thoth that I am now finding out what makes up this cyclic thing I feel. In this perspective your comments on Kabbalah really helped me see some thoughts in my own mind more clearly.

Thanks again D

M

Desmond wrote: ↑21 Jan 2020, 16:13
“Part of the problem with reading the occult Tarot is that it was relegated to a filing cabinet of correspondences and keywords such that the images themselves became dispensable. Using the modus operandi of the occultists, one could easily replace the the cards with Hebrew letters, numbers, and astrological glyphs to obtain the same result in a mechanical reading of keywords. Lon Milo Duquette’s Tarot of Ceremonial Magick (which evolved from just such a series of filing cards) is a good example of the logical consequence of this situation.”

In short, with the occult tarot, one is no longer reading the classic images, instead reacting to the associations that have been built up around them. Because the images do not naturally demonstrate occult frameworks, a whole host of decks has sprung up which seek to rectify the tarot and restore its lost symbolism. Further decks also spring up seeking to rectify these rectifications or to give them new artistic expressions.

The Waite-Smith deck is largely responsible for our current predicament. Waite taught that the tarot was an artistic rendition of the universal Secret Doctrine (of Alchemy, Kabalism, Astrology, Ceremonial Magic, and Freemasonry) and issued Smith’s cards as “restored and rectified” presentations correlating to the system of correspondences that he learned in the Golden Dawn. The Case-Burns deck is a good example of a rectification of Waite’s rectification.

Each of these sets demonstrates the centrality of the designer’s understanding of an underlying framework of associations. Working with decks like these, one is directed toward an understanding and engagement with the doctrine such that the images themselves become arbitrary.

Personally, I believe that the imagery and iconicity of the Marseilles Tarot is intrinsically beautiful, rather than extrinsically meaningful, and that the canons of proportion according to which they were constructed are far superior to any occultist doctrines that later became ascribed to them.

Take Care,
Desmond

Desmond, this is so utterly brilliant and on point. It is a masterful summary of my own thoughts and feelings about the wrongful, and ultimately disastrous, "rectifications" that tarot has suffered under since the French and British esotericists muddled and mucked about in the tarot -- trying to shoe-horn it into their spiritual doctrines and dogmas. The original images have been lost in a maelstrom of astrological, kabalistic, hermetic, telemaic, etc. correspondences - so that now people believe that they have to consult all those esoteric sources - rather than dealing with the IMAGE that is staring us right in the face.

Best regards maestro!
Belenus

Desmond wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 00:15
He also seemed to succumb to the problem of systematization. While the journey toward mastery possesses intrinsic interest as a conceptual framework, it was frequently employed to force interpretations that are not immediately evident in the images. A good example is the description provided of La Papesse when he stated that she “personifies the artisan and the farmer. Her element is earth.” It is possible to read this into the card if you have a destination already in mind, but I don’t think that some of these ideas are intrinsic to the images.

I came back to read this very interesting post. Yes, one of the biggest annoyances in the Tarot world is this fact that people have already one destination in mind, as you very aptly describe it. Another interpretation of La Papesse is pregnancy. But pregnancy I've also seen as given a meaning for : The Moon, Judgment, The Queen of Swords, The Queen of Cups, The Star, The Empress, the Lovers (in the RWS) and here I stop because it's getting boring. It doesn't make sense. Where does all this come from ? It's usually just wishful thinking and make believe.

Monk wrote: ↑21 Jan 2020, 17:57

I see your point and how you mean it. This actually helped me a lot again. I have been looking into a system that reflects my approach and understanding what makes us personally, our society, species tick. Diana pointed me to Thoth a while ago and I started reading into it. Contrary to you I did find a lot of confirmations in there that support me on my path. Which is perfectly okay. It is of great value that you mentioned that you feel certain decks can be 'trusted' visually since their original meaning still is accessible through undistorted images.(provided I understood you correct) I however have been constantly wondering about what kind of system works behind he cards. I have always felt there was an invisible cycle going on, A huge clock work. The images in GD and TDM inspire me but I find it hard to tie them in together. It was only through Thoth that I am now finding out what makes up this cyclic thing I feel. In this perspective your comments on Kabbalah really helped me see some thoughts in my own mind more clearly.

Thanks again D

M

Oh, so you did look into the Thoth did you? I surprised myself for recommending it to you, as I've mentioned a few times on these boards my feelings towards Crowley and also Thelema and the Golden Dawn. I think I thought it would help you see things in a different light. You're very deep into the Tarot already (you're certainly no beginner) and you have a very unique path and it deserves having a wide overview otherwise I felt you'd start feeling stifled.

Desmond wrote: ↑21 Jan 2020, 16:13
The Waite-Smith deck is largely responsible for our current predicament. Waite taught that the tarot was an artistic rendition of the universal Secret Doctrine (of Alchemy, Kabalism, Astrology, Ceremonial Magic, and Freemasonry) and issued Smith’s cards as “restored and rectified” presentations correlating to the system of correspondences that he learned in the Golden Dawn. The Case-Burns deck is a good example of a rectification of Waite’s rectification.

Each of these sets demonstrates the centrality of the designer’s understanding of an underlying framework of associations. Working with decks like these, one is directed toward an understanding and engagement with the doctrine such that the images themselves become arbitrary.

Personally, I believe that the imagery and iconicity of the Marseilles Tarot is intrinsically beautiful, rather than extrinsically meaningful, and that the canons of proportion according to which they were constructed are far superior to any occultist doctrines that later became ascribed to them.

Waite's deck caused a lot of damage to the Tarot. But as a friend pointed out to me recently, the Tarot will survive - it's stronger than the Golden Dawn and commercial interests - and one can see this in a birth of interest - for one cannot call it a resurgence - in the historical decks in the Anglo Saxon world and particularly the Tarot of Marseilles (but not only). The Tarot is taking again it's rightful place.

But the Waite deck has the merit of having opened in fact the tarot to the Anglo Saxon world and so I do give it that credit and it has helped at least give the tarot some lettres de noblesse in places where it was not part of the culture. And Waite meant well. He wasn't a bad person - just looking for some meaning to his life.

But I don't think the damage will ever be repaired completely. It's become a business now - and when something in the nature of tarot becomes a business, there is always some corruption and rot.

Now that being said, I do want to claim loud and strong ....... (hang on, I'm just going to take my megaphone from under my bed...... ) that yes, remove all the nonsense from the Tarot. Remove all those kabbalistic rectified stuff and the astrological fantasies, by all means let's remove the insanity that has taken hold in some cases, but please please don't forget that behind the Tarot is a great tradition. A tradition that has roots in Platonism, in early Christianity, in Eastern mysticism of the desert, in Hermeticism and the three-times-great. It abounds in mythology and symbolism. And the cathedral builders.

If one just looks at the pictures .... and just the pictures.... as if they were nothing more - and forget the times in which the Tarot was created and what those pictures could mean for people and why those particular images were chosen with all their strangeness and mystery and odd details, we are missing the mark. And we may as well just read toothpicks or raindrops as the wonderful Dan Pelletier - aka Umbrae - used to do to great effect. I miss Dan so much. But he must surely know CoT exists but has probably moved on from Tarot forums. Maybe we could organise some kind of collective invocation.

The maître cartier did not by accident or because he had no notions of art or drawing arms draw the Valet de Batons with such a preposterous way of holding his baton... his arms form the shape of a triangle. That's no accident.



For heaven's sake everyone, let's not throw away the baby with the bathwater. Or else our Tarot world will really be on fire. And future generations will have this to say :




This is the one of the weaknesses of EE's method which is a very fine one and I've from the first when I heard of it supported it and still do as it's far better than the majority out there. But it has a flaw. (I don't use his method myself though, ever.)

Diana wrote: ↑22 Jan 2020, 18:11

Monk wrote: ↑21 Jan 2020, 17:57

I see your point and how you mean it. This actually helped me a lot again. I have been looking into a system that reflects my approach and understanding what makes us personally, our society, species tick. Diana pointed me to Thoth a while ago and I started reading into it. Contrary to you I did find a lot of confirmations in there that support me on my path. Which is perfectly okay. It is of great value that you mentioned that you feel certain decks can be 'trusted' visually since their original meaning still is accessible through undistorted images.(provided I understood you correct) I however have been constantly wondering about what kind of system works behind he cards. I have always felt there was an invisible cycle going on, A huge clock work. The images in GD and TDM inspire me but I find it hard to tie them in together. It was only through Thoth that I am now finding out what makes up this cyclic thing I feel. In this perspective your comments on Kabbalah really helped me see some thoughts in my own mind more clearly.

Thanks again D

M

Oh, so you did look into the Thoth did you? I surprised myself for recommending it to you, as I've mentioned a few times on these boards my feelings towards Crowley and also Thelema and the Golden Dawn. I think I thought it would help you see things in a different light. You're very deep into the Tarot already (you're certainly no beginner) and you have a very unique path and it deserves having a wide overview otherwise I felt you'd start feeling stifled.

I did read into Thoth quite a bit already. Feels good to set aside my reservations. Within the wider scope of cartomancy an interesting approach indeed. It does rhyme in large part with the aspects I seek in Tarot. Not all the layers of 'knowledge' appeal to me but I does help me establish my zone of focus. It seems when looking for truth, mostly it is the space between all those deck types where the interesting trains of thought head off.

Monk wrote: ↑22 Jan 2020, 21:15
It seems when looking for truth, mostly it is the space between all those deck types where the interesting trains of thought head off.

“The music is not in the notes,
but in the silence between.”

― Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

Diana wrote: ↑22 Jan 2020, 21:18

Monk wrote: ↑22 Jan 2020, 21:15
It seems when looking for truth, mostly it is the space between all those deck types where the interesting trains of thought head off.

“The music is not in the notes,
but in the silence between.”

― Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

My felt point

Diana wrote: ↑22 Jan 2020, 18:41But the Waite deck has the merit of having opened in fact the tarot to the Anglo Saxon world and so I do give it that credit and it has helped at least give the tarot some lettres de noblesse in places where it was not part of the culture. And Waite meant well. He wasn't a bad person - just looking for some meaning to his life.

Greetings Diana,

This article in praise of the artist helped me to appreciate the merit of the Waite-Smith deck as an artistic achievement independent of both its prototypes and the symbolic accretions of A.E. Waite.

Pamela Coleman Smith: A Savant with a Child’s Heart

Take Care,
Desmond