Cult of Tarot Forum

How do people feel about reading with secondhand decks? I like it but maybe I have been lucky with the decks I have tried it with.

As long as there are no missing cards, makes no difference to me. They're just cards with pictures on them. As long as the cards are not bent in the corners in such a way that I can guess which one it is.

But I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to use a second hand deck. Am curious to find out. Sounds very much like superstition to me. But maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. It just sounds odd. Like saying you wouldn't read a second hand book, or wear second hand clothes.

I haven't got an opportunity to try out, but i am looking forward to try once

Marigold wrote: ↑18 Jun 2019, 08:45 As long as there are no missing cards, makes no difference to me. They're just cards with pictures on them. As long as the cards are not bent in the corners in such a way that I can guess which one it is.

But I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to use a second hand deck. Am curious to find out. Sounds very much like superstition to me. But maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. It just sounds odd. Like saying you wouldn't read a second hand book, or wear second hand clothes.

I have no evidence to support this but I think you may 'pick up' something of whoever used the deck before. This could be just imagination but I also ,sometimes, get the same feeling from secondhand books or records.

inomminate wrote: ↑18 Jun 2019, 09:34 I have no evidence to support this but I think you may 'pick up' something of whoever used the deck before. This could be just imagination but I also ,sometimes, get the same feeling from secondhand books or records.

You're right, I've also had this feeling with some secondhand books. But I feel that this is an enhancement. It's like reading a book with an old friend.

I think I actually prefer secondhand decks. I received a new deck yesterday and the cards are all new and so darn slippery. If anything they've got the "energy" of an Amazon warehouse. Can't wait for them to get older and worn.

(I hate Amazon. Why the heck do I order stuff from a place that goes against my values ? I need to start walking my talk.)

Marigold wrote: ↑18 Jun 2019, 10:03 I think I actually prefer secondhand decks. I received a new deck yesterday and the cards are all new and so darn slippery. If anything they've got the "energy" of an Amazon warehouse. Can't wait for them to get older and worn.

(I hate Amazon. Why the heck do I order stuff from a place that goes against my values ? I need to start walking my talk.)

I think I feel like if a previous reader worked hard to work with and understand a deck, that some of that breaking it in energy and knowledge becomes a part of the deck and your connection with it..... Somehow. Like wands in Harry Potter, they learn from their owners and it's a symbiotic relationship or something. Maybe even this sort of astral cloud has the ability to transmit and teach and guide you mimicking a vibe of the previous reader. Or something, I'm just blabbing.

I'm having this same problem with Amazon decks. I've bought two from them and I haven't used them much. Actually, a bit too with direct from printer decks, but it depends. I think the story matters, and sometimes how you got it or how it found you. It's different than buying direct from the creator I'm finding. Maybe thank you cards are more magical than I thought Maybe it's the energy of circumstances and introductions or something.

At the same time I'm expecting that I will get into them.... Maybe I ought to do some sort of ceremonial thing, or just wait for them to become a bit more "aged" as I check in and review and become more acquatinted with periodically.

But yeah. This past year I've had prime for the first time but I hadn't known all this crap about the CEO and crap so I just feel bad now. At the time I remember hearing there was a strike but I was also visiting my mom at the other end of the country and was frantically trying to help her with all her technology and broken stuff since I'd be gone for years probably soon. And I can't drive and she works two jobs. But at the end of the day idk if that justifies it. So I'm not gonna renew it. Also they're evil and paired with a smartphone they're super evil and unhealthy.

Sometimes I also have this problem if I obtained a deck irresponsibly or when my budget was tight but that has always evened out over time. It does motivate me to buy decks responsibly so I don't associate regret or shame with them. It's awkward! Haha

Marigold wrote: ↑18 Jun 2019, 08:45 But I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to use a second hand deck. Am curious to find out. Sounds very much like superstition to me. But maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. It just sounds odd. Like saying you wouldn't read a second hand book, or wear second hand clothes.

My mom is fine with 2nd hand within the family but not from strangers. Even then she's sometimes particular about who it is coming from and how she feels about their cleanliness sometimes. She doesn't like thrift shops either. Because germs and infectious skin diseases and bed bugs. She'd probably prefer to clean even a 2nd hand book off a bit, though she's fine with libraries it seems. Also something about not knowing people and who they are makes her feel weird about having their stuff having around, like she's suspicious of it and them and it's energy and somehow also it's cleanliness. Like resonance too. Somehow maybe it'll attract similar things or people. I bet she'd even give an extra spritz of holy water towards a used lamp (I think she does this on church holidays).

So I'mma guess folks who don't like secondhand decks feel something similar.

I never had any problems with 2nd hand books, baby stuff, clothes or cards. I actually like the feeling that the things have gone through hands, it connects us all and it's also ecologically intelligent. Things pass through our lives, and if someone lets a deck go and I want it, I'm sure it's good karma for all of us - the deck included.

I also like things around me to look and feel used, lived-in. I take care of everything around me but I don't need things to be pristine.

Well, I grew up in a nearly 200 years old house and studied Greek coins, medieval churches and Renaissance sculptures - I do like old things and a path down time

AstralPasta wrote: ↑18 Jun 2019, 12:30 I think I feel like if a previous reader worked hard to work with and understand a deck, that some of that breaking it in energy and knowledge becomes a part of the deck and your connection with it..... Somehow. Like wands in Harry Potter, they learn from their owners and it's a symbiotic relationship or something. Maybe even this sort of astral cloud has the ability to transmit and teach and guide you mimicking a vibe of the previous reader. Or something, I'm just blabbing.

Well, if you bring Harry Potter into the picture, how can one not nod in agreement ! (I'm not saying this tongue in cheek. Rowling really tapped into some deep stuff in her books.)

Well, if you're blabbing, please blab some more ! Most interesting what you have to say (or blab).

I'm fine with secondhand decks.
Nemia makes a good point, many of us grew up in old homes. Additionally, higher-ticket items like cars and fine jewelry are often purchased used. A lot of people love shopping at thrift stores, or collecting antique or vintage objects. Nobody really worries about "picking up" things from a vintage hat pin or a piece of antique crockery. The ground we walk on is "used". Who knows what's happened there? Why should a deck be any different?

AstralPasta wrote: ↑18 Jun 2019, 12:30I think I feel like if a previous reader worked hard to work with and understand a deck, that some of that breaking it in energy and knowledge becomes a part of the deck and your connection with it..... Somehow. Like wands in Harry Potter, they learn from their owners and it's a symbiotic relationship or something. Maybe even this sort of astral cloud has the ability to transmit and teach and guide you mimicking a vibe of the previous reader. Or something, I'm just blabbing.

I want to say "baloney!", but I can't quite do that. I've noticed that decks I use regularly seem to be more accurate than the ones that have been languishing. I don't just mean different systems, like picking up a TdM after months of Thoth. I mean the same system, like Lenormand. I use Lenormand a lot, and I have a lot of decks (virtually all of them very traditional) so I can rotate them and not wear any out. It's not like going from the Thoth to the Bohemian Gothic to the Holy Light - it's just Rider, Clover, Ship, etc. But I've had the same Wust reproduction on the table for over a year because it works so well, and there's an adjustment period if I swap it out. Before the Wust it was a Dondorf reproduction.

A curandero told me once that "You have to keep your cards hot." I've found this to be true, using a deck a lot does have an effect. But I think it fades, like perfume. Occasionally I get my old Dondorf out, and it doesn't have the crazy precision it once had.

So it follows that the previous owners imprint (or whatever you want to call it) would fade in time. "All is impermanent", as the Buddha said.

I'm having this same problem with Amazon decks. I've bought two from them and I haven't used them much. Actually, a bit too with direct from printer decks, but it depends. I think the story matters, and sometimes how you got it or how it found you. It's different than buying direct from the creator I'm finding. Maybe thank you cards are more magical than I thought Maybe it's the energy of circumstances and introductions or something.

Yes, but again, using them will eventually put your own "perfume" on them, and whatever they came to you with will fade in time.

This is why some people do new deck rituals, temporarily burying them and whatnot. I've never buried a deck - using them is enough - but I understand the symbolism.

Things do have psychological associations. If I am wearing a certain dress and something terrible happens, I don't care to wear that dress anymore. Similarly, virtually all of us have lucky objects. I never, ever take my jades off! And they have been fortunate for me. But think about jade - mine came from Burma. Truly horrific things have happened there, and it follows that the jade business could be nasty. I'm relying on the natural "goodness" of the jade itself, and the good will of the people who sold/gave me the pieces.

I understand refusing to support unethical business. I stopped buying MAC cosmetics when they started animal testing so they could market in China. But I didn't do this out of fear that the makeup would be bad juju. My entire motivation was "**** you, MAC!"

(I'm not a fanatic. I understand taking a life to preserve many other lives, my own dog's heartworm preventative and vaccines were tested on other dogs at one time. But cosmetics? People have known how to make those at least since old man Max Factor back in the 20's and 30's. Much longer in some cases - think Egypt. Women looked utterly gorgeous in the interwar/Golden Age period. And even if that were not the case, I don't want anything tortured just so I can paint my face. There is no excuse for cosmetic testing.)

At the same time I'm expecting that I will get into them.... Maybe I ought to do some sort of ceremonial thing, or just wait for them to become a bit more "aged" as I check in and review and become more acquatinted with periodically.

Exactly.

I still shop on amazon, BTW. I don't "support" them, my money won't make or break them. It's just that I live in a little town where a lot of things aren't available. My choices are either travel 50+ miles, order and pay crazy shipping elsewhere for little things like ethnic food items (or cruelty-free shampoo!), or just do Prime.

I see a lot of news stories about how amazon mistreats workers. OTOH, we have an amazon warehouse not far from here, and people who work there say it's OK. I don't know if it's because that particular warehouse is OK, or if working conditions are so bad here that amazon looks good in comparison. But (pardon the political comment, admin please delete if you see fit) I think fighting "right to work" laws and getting good strong Unions going is a more effective strategy than boycotting amazon.

But yeah. This past year I've had prime for the first time but I hadn't known all this crap about the CEO and crap so I just feel bad now. At the time I remember hearing there was a strike but I was also visiting my mom at the other end of the country and was frantically trying to help her with all her technology and broken stuff since I'd be gone for years probably soon. And I can't drive and she works two jobs. But at the end of the day idk if that justifies it. So I'm not gonna renew it. Also they're evil and paired with a smartphone they're super evil and unhealthy.

They're a big corporation, and ALL of those are evil. But unavoidable, so don't beat yourself up. They've metasticized, and they've got us coming and going.
One bright spot: they seem to be killing WalMart. That warms the cockles of my little black heart.
Evil killing evil.

Sometimes I also have this problem if I obtained a deck irresponsibly or when my budget was tight but that has always evened out over time. It does motivate me to buy decks responsibly so I don't associate regret or shame with them. It's awkward! Haha

LOL, I've done that. Beans and rice, beans and rice, but look at this deck!

My mom is fine with 2nd hand within the family but not from strangers. Even then she's sometimes particular about who it is coming from and how she feels about their cleanliness sometimes. She doesn't like thrift shops either. Because germs and infectious skin diseases and bed bugs. She'd probably prefer to clean even a 2nd hand book off a bit, though she's fine with libraries it seems. Also something about not knowing people and who they are makes her feel weird about having their stuff having around, like she's suspicious of it and them and it's energy and somehow also it's cleanliness. Like resonance too. Somehow maybe it'll attract similar things or people. I bet she'd even give an extra spritz of holy water towards a used lamp (I think she does this on church holidays).

So I'mma guess folks who don't like secondhand decks feel something similar.

Bugs and germs are DEFINITELY something to avoid. Thrift shop clothing is allegedly washed and dried on high heat (but how do you know? And what about dry clean only items? And mattresses and couches? Nope, nope, and a big bag-o-NOPE!)

But I don't know anyone who's gotten an illness (or an infestation of bedbugs or scabies *shudders*) from a used deck. I actually prefer old cardstock, in most cases. Grimaud, for instance, is MUCH nicer than France Cartes!

Also, if you cancel Prime, make sure they don't bill you for another year and raise holy hell if they do. I've heard some tales of them trying that.

katrinka wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 01:45 A curandero told me once that "You have to keep your cards hot." I've found this to be true, using a deck a lot does have an effect.

I've had similar experiences. My vintage RWS gets real salty because I don't use it often (I save it for very special occasions). It reads accurately but, when it first comes out after awhile, says everything in the nastiest way possible.

katrinka wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 01:45
A curandero told me once that "You have to keep your cards hot." I've found this to be true, using a deck a lot does have an effect. But I think it fades, like perfume. Occasionally I get my old Dondorf out, and it doesn't have the crazy precision it once had.

I've noticed this. Now, can you keep multiple decks hot or do you think it's more of a one at a time kinda thing?

devin wrote: ↑21 Jun 2019, 19:34

katrinka wrote: ↑19 Jun 2019, 01:45
A curandero told me once that "You have to keep your cards hot." I've found this to be true, using a deck a lot does have an effect. But I think it fades, like perfume. Occasionally I get my old Dondorf out, and it doesn't have the crazy precision it once had.

I've noticed this. Now, can you keep multiple decks hot or do you think it's more of a one at a time kinda thing?

I can usually do two, but if I try to keep three going, there's a bit of a quality slide. Others may be different, I don't know.

katrinka wrote: ↑21 Jun 2019, 21:18I can usually do two, but if I try to keep three going, there's a bit of a quality slide. Others may be different, I don't know.

OK, good to know, thanks. I usually fixate on one deck at a time.... with an adjustment period when swapping over. Up until now, I'd assumed it was down to visual familiarity. Then again, I mainly work with Conver style TdMs, and, if I'm honest, is there really a huge visual difference between a Grimaud, Jodo's deck, and Yoav Ben-Dov's CBD? Maybe there is more at play.

katrinka wrote: ↑18 Jun 2019, 20:21 I'm fine with secondhand decks.
Nemia makes a good point, many of us grew up in old homes. Additionally, higher-ticket items like cars and fine jewelry are often purchased used. A lot of people love shopping at thrift stores, or collecting antique or vintage objects. Nobody really worries about "picking up" things from a vintage hat pin or a piece of antique crockery. The ground we walk on is "used". Who knows what's happened there? Why should a deck be any different?

HAH! I agree with you there, and I love that.

This reminds me of why I feel weird, sometimes, about 'cleansing' crystals. Rocks are all about memory to me. Cleansing and resetting them so they're 'only attuned to your energies' doesn't make as much sense to me. They're old as balls, you can literally read their age like rings in a tree sometimes, and you've been there for like a second of their lives. How are you gonna make it clear millions of years from it's record (of being of a certain mineral make up and chemical composition in roughly this general form) just by letting it bathe in moonlight for 3 days? Some people cleanse crystals by burying them too, but that's where they just came from?? And I'm not sure of the effectiveness of removing like, energies of trauma around a crystal that was mined in cruel and destructive ways. Whether from the crystal or the earth, or more to my particular point, the person who had to mine it.

At the same time I kinda get it, but I also wonder sometimes. Part of the wonder of crystals and rocks and I guess mountains and caves and junk are that they've been there....FOREVER. They've witnessed, like, volcanos erupting and earthquakes and been present for the creation and destruction of whole species - they've been around and been through A LOT. So I don't as much get someone having a bad day and using a crystal and needing to it of negative vibes because of it.

Then again, I guess they haven't experienced witches handling them in an intentional and energetic and focused sort of way. And they would have had a long time to offset energies too, so eh. And maybe it's more of a ritual for the witch than anything else.

I did read your other post, and this was actually a saved draft ^^^ (handy feature!). The idea of energies being transient hadn't really occurred to me before, for some reason. I like the idea, but it also makes me wonder about enchantment and talismans in magic. Actually, in that case it makes more sense. So much effort is put into imbuing an object with a magical charge and purpose, and I suppose it's because magic can wane? Or energies can wane and be discharged, since nothing is really content with staying still forever. It makes me think about the difference between "enchanting" something, with the understanding that this enchantment will wane, and whatever other magic, like a spell that temporarily creates an opportunity or a change in the world (in a place/time or however), or creating a talisman or amulet (that you may or may not feed in order to upkeep, depending on how you interpret these terms)....hmm.

I feel like with decks, it's more that they "go to sleep" and there's a moment of catching up and a brief transition period that's a bit awkward before you start syncing up again. Basically, like any relationship, the past isn't gone, but you both need to remember what it's like with each other, and then adapt to whatever changes have happened. (obviously I tend to personify physical objects, it could be more your projections and associations with the imagery of your deck have to become familiar again).

But I really like the idea of having to "keep your cards hot" too. It makes a lot of sense. I've been essentially juggling 10 or so decks the past few months since I've bought a bunch this year (I guess I got into deck collecting this year), but I have been having trouble prioritizing which ones I want to work with and learn and journal with. On top of that, I have an oracle deck I really like. I'm glad I like a lot of the decks I've obtained so passionately, but it's also like, aiiee, how do I choose, you're also so lovely and new hahaha. (it'll probably be the RWS paaaaah)

I guess it's both bittersweet and promising that energies will fade if you don't upkeep them. I guess that's why ancestor worship is a thing, and offerings to them. I'm guessing at the same times there's always a faint current available if you ever want to strengthen it, but maybe not.

Hooray for Walmart dying Though I also worry that just means we've gotten a Leopard to eat a Hyena. Ha ha ha.

Beans and rice , literally! It doesn't help that I've acquired expensive-ish tastes in food since working at a health food store. Sushi rice, umeboshi plum vinegar, and furikake are not the most affordable staples, where I live. I'm cooling down now though, out of neccessity (and because what's left on my wishlist is too expensive for me to even think about it! probably! ....gotta get these decks to work for me )

Old cardstock does seem like it's almost always better. I guess they were more of a luxury item before?

I agree with you on unionizing. I worked at WalMart very briefly, partly out of curiosity, and lord. They had the weirdest propaganda videos about not unionizing, said it was your choice either way, and then made you sign an agreement. Is that even legal?! (tangent haha)

I have only ever bought new decks. I may be enticed by a rare deck but only if it's very scarcely used.