Cult of Tarot Forum

Who doesn’t love a “10 Worst” list?

Isn’t the “10 Worst Films of the Year” list a million times more fun to hear or read than the 10 Best?

And the Worst Dressed list (with pictures!) is so much better than the 10 Best dressed. I mean anybody should be able to look good in a $10,000 gown and jewels but it takes a special talent to look awful for that much money.

Despite my affection for the special enthusiasm and wit that reviewers put into “Worst” lists, there was one I objected to a couple of years ago that I now have second thoughts about.

A tarot podcast I enjoy was promoting a “10 Worst Tarot Decks” of whatever year it was. (As the pandemic has now stretched into literal years, I’ve totally lost track of time except I’m sure it was B.C. – before Covid)

I could tell they were going to have some fun with that topic on their podcast. My darker side was super-curious. But my deck creator side felt differently.

I know well what goes into creating a deck and getting it produced. It’s a lot. And for pretty small reward in most cases, at least in comparison to what goes into it. Some call it a “labour of love” but I see more as a labour of obsession. You have be just a wee bit crazy to start a deck project of 78 individual pieces of art and to carry it all the way through to production and delivery. It requires a very special kind of compulsion.

So the idea of ripping to shreds someone’s little deck just felt really mean to me.

I wrote to the podcasters and explained my feelings.

I said that shredding the work of a Jennifer Lawrence or Leonardo DiCaprio might be a bit mean too but they can go cry into their giant piles of money, take a luxurious vacation and then move on to their next multi-million dollar paycheck project.



But you tear apart some little tarot deck that isn’t to your taste and you’ve stabbed the soul of a (probably) very sensitive person who has invested much more time and money into the project than they can really afford. You’ve cost them some of the few sales they can look forward to that would cover some of their costs and time.

It seemed more cruel that it would be entertaining.

They agreed, at least one of them did, and as far as I know, they never did that podcast.

But now I think I regret talking them out of it.

Mostly because it was none of my business. It was their podcast. Who was I to tell them how to run it? (I was only suggesting really, they could have ignored me but I did compose a pretty convincing argument.)

With their senses of humour, I’m sure it would have been funny and entertaining and they may have brought out some very good points in general about deck creation that needed to be heard.

On the other hand, I would really feel bad for any deck creator whose work was subject to such a skewering.

On the other hand, (?) a savvy deck creator could use the opportunity to counter their opinion much like actors who win “Razzies” do. It can be very endearing and also very funny.



Sandra Bullock responding to winning the Razzie Award for Worst Actress


We need to have a better sense of humour.

As we talked about in the previous Devil’s Advocate topic Consuming the Tarot there is a massive uptick in the sheer number of decks being produced. On the one hand this shows just how wide the interest in Tarot is, which is great, on the other, well, maybe all this deck creation needs to be reigned in a bit and some more focus put on certain points of quality. The audience needs to get a little more discerning and some honest reviews could help.

But we have to be careful because a bad review can be very damaging, hurtful and just plain mean. Not every reviewer possesses the humour and understanding to do it well and not every deck creator can handle it like Sandra Bullock who has a pile of money to cry in when she’s sad because someone doesn’t like her work.

It’s important for a reviewer to find the good things in a deck even if it isn’t their cup of tea, and to note what they don’t like with some style. You have to be a pretty good writer to write a negative review that isn’t just mean.

It’s also important for the consumers to become not only discerning about decks but also about how they read reviews. Have you ever loved a movie the critics hated? Of course you have. You read the review and could see that it was quite possible that your opinion of the film will be different. (When critics say that a movie is "slow" I'm pretty sure I will love it.) We often disagree with reviewers who we really like, who we usually agree with. It makes the relationship interesting.

Bad reviews, or not just bad, but less than glowing let’s say, can open the doors to great conversations, rebuttals from artists and fans of the deck.

But it is a slippery damn slope.

What do you think? Are we mature enough to handle this? I mean from artist to reviewer to consumer. All of us. One problem is it is a relatively small community. That can make criticism dicey. But as the Devil’s Advocate likes to say, Dicey is Fun!!

(reminder: please read the guidelines in the pink box at the top of this page before replying. Thank you!!)

I needed to see this morning. My first mainstream deck just launched and is finally making its way into the hands of the consumers. It was pushed back several times due to covid and shipping delays. Reviews are coming in slowly. The first was a two-star review with no explanation as to why. Honestly, I stewed about it all day, wondering what they didn't like when word of mouth has been very favorable. To begin with, I promised myself I wasn't going to look at the reviews, but like a child at Christmas, I couldn't resist a peek. Then a five-star came in, and the person gushed about everything they loved. This helped me lick my wound. Then someone complained about the gilding and how they had to send the deck back, etc. Obviously, the gilding is beyond this author/artist's control. And I know more of those types of reviews will come in-one or two stars because the deck was late, or it was damaged in transit. Again, beyond my control. On to the sensitive part. I am a sensitive person/artist. It was challenging for me to step into my passion and put myself out there on such a significant level, knowing my baby would not be everyone's cup of tea. Also, I know there are rabid fans of the subject matter (not just Tarot) that would love nothing more than to tear it down. Then there will be those who want to compare it to another deck released the prior year. Very different styles, but one will likely say copycat, or I don't need this one. I already have one. That last bit is probably the voice in my head more than what will actually be written. Still, I am super sensitive. All my art is a labor of love, but this deck, in particular, was my heart and soul. It was the deck that made me try harder and truly believe in myself. To have someone tear it down for something stupid would gut me. Build thicker skin or get out, some would say. And don't get me started on the thieves waiting in the shadows to copy the deck. I've lost money on my art since inception, and this is likely to be no different. A few bad reviews on a virgin launch could sink the proverbial ship. Will I stop creating? Not likely but, yes, it does hurt.

Someone had a go at one particular card I posted in a page on Facebook. She was really waspish and attacked me for created a really degraded image of The Emperor.

Well I stand by my conception of that particular card, and said so. And I told her her attitude revealed a great deal about her.

I am one of these small self published ayers within the world of Tarot too and I l how how it feels to have, our previous art attacked, it once happened at a venue on the city where I live when I put on a small exhibition. My comment book was choked with mean, totally destructive comments, along the lines that my work was hopeless, pathetic and generally totally lacking in merit. I am not sure you can ever develop a sense of humour in a situation like that. There was a lot of bitterness to some of the comments, perhaps they thought as, an outsider, their words would be beyond my woeful comprehension anyway.

lol Worst list IS fun (as long as you are not in it!^^:) btw now i must google it!;)

agree 78 card images (and accompanying text!) is special type of crazy (& bit masochistic!xD
& it IS terrible hurt when after all THAT time and effort you invested to present something you think Magnificent Masterpiece to the world someone decide to spit on ALL by saying: ”it’s not this or that etc”, but it does happen anyway & even it’s Ouch! +All Emo from Astonishment to Disbelief Deep Hurt & Resignation But I respect fact we all have right to personal opinion & preferences & Happy (*Thank You Dear Good!\o/;) Not All people think Same!^^ it’s Great! lol

imo Any publicity is good? but popular Cancel Culture is another thing & attacking author on personal level by projecting your own insecurities esp slander that can affect people job & pro work they do for living i strongly disapprove of!

@ArtinSoul oh! You are100% on spot with baby! My Art is my Children!^^ im like doting mom *evil laughter* : ”go on my Children take a step* then critic comes like; #$%&* I Can’t watch This!* then take deep breath rewind & start again from last Save point!;) point is Not to take it personal, it’s just difference in esthetic or whatever & fact is it vary!:)

@LStevens Wow, im astonished people would go so far to actually write such a nasty thing about art they supposedly don’t like or care? Why would someone waste their time on such thing? imo im watching your art from start & must say you did amazing growth as artist!:) those mixed media gold stardust nebula painting you share on fb are Absolutely Top!^^ & i know as pro critic!;D lol btw best way to deal with those sort of low jabs is to ask yourself who would write such a thing? are those critic pro academic in your field in which case they should elaborate what you should do to improve? if not i have extra card in my deck for this & every other spit talk!;)

Joan Marie wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022, 09:48 I said that shredding the work of a Jennifer Lawrence or Leonardo DiCaprio might be a bit mean too but they can go cry into their giant piles of money, take a luxurious vacation and then move on to their next multi-million dollar paycheck project.

But you tear apart some little tarot deck that isn’t to your taste and you’ve stabbed the soul of a (probably) very sensitive person who has invested much more time and money into the project than they can really afford. You’ve cost them some of the few sales they can look forward to that would cover some of their costs and time.

I think this is a very important distinction that you have made. @Joan Marie

I'm all in favor of constructive criticism, but when it comes to a non-celebrity / struggling artist, who doesn't have a pile of money to cry into, being put on a “10 Worst” list seems less like “constructive criticism” and more like a “public shaming.” If history is any indicator, “10 Worst” lists are usually light on the “constructive” and heavy on the “criticism” in order to entertain the audience, at the expense of the one being criticized.

As far as individual deck reviews, I think that, as consumers, we all have a responsibility to do our research (whenever possible) before investing in someone's art. It is not fair to punish the artist with a bad review just because we made an impulse-buy after seeing only a few cards. So, unless a deck is a limited edition that is due to sell out quickly, there is no reason we can't exercise a little self-control and wait for some additional images (or a Youtube flip-through) to be posted, just to make sure we are happy with the deck as a whole. This should eliminate the need for a negative review in most cases, at least where the art is concerned. Production defects I will address at the end.

If one feels compelled to leave a negative review. I think the artist and circumstances should first be given careful consideration. A new artist who just created their first deck should certainly receive more of the constructive and less of the criticism. An experienced creator, on the other hand, might not be treated so gently, especially if they do something like that which I have described in the following example:

The only time I ever wrote a particularly harsh review was for a creator who had previously created 12 decks (tarots and playing cards). In this particular instance, the creator made radical changes to the original artwork after most of the backers (including me) had already pledged over $100,000 in funds. This was despite a promise at the beginning of the campaign that only minor changes would be made (if any). I was particularly upset because the deck in question was one of the most unique I had seen in quite a while. After the creator got done doing major damage to the original artwork, the linen card stock finished the job and put the final nail in the coffin.

Now comes the question of production defects: If the deck is self-published, then of course the deck creator might be worthy of criticism if he or she does not resolve such issues, but at what point (if any) does the deck creator have a responsibility to step in to try to resolve production defects when a publisher is involved? I will use Le Tarot Noir by Matthieu Hackiere and Justine Ternel as one example.

Le Tarot Noir is, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful tarot decks in existence, but based on the reviews and on the five copies I have had in my possession at one time or another, both the first and second editions seem to be plagued with production defects: creased cards, scratched cards, torn cards, missing cards, cards from a single deck cut to radically different sizes, poor gilding, pages of the book which fall out because of not enough glue, pages of the book stuck together because of too much glue, boxes dented during the production process, bowed lids on some boxes, box covers placed over defective cardboard so that the cover is corrugated rather than smooth, and so on. When defects such as these continue over a long period of time (through multiple editions), does not the deck creator have a responsibility to step in and call a halt to production until these issues are resolved? And if the deck creator fails to do so, are they not worthy of criticism? Does the deck creator even have the authority to do so once the deck is given to a publisher?

A very interesting post. I find mainsteam deck reviews tend to be too uncritical. There is a huge quantity of stuff coming out, and an honest review is an important way to sift through it all to unearth the real gems. The larger publishers, especially the large tarot angelcard farms, do get far too easy a ride, as a lot of the work is difficult to distinguish from everything else.

I can understand both sides. My background is in art, and we had regular critique. Sometimes it was hurtful, but only when the point was irrelevant. I actually longed for more severe critique, from someone who really understood their subject. The lack of expertise and focused criticism on my course read to me as a kind of neglect.

My point here being that critique can be enlivening, generous, and help you to develop. However it needs to be fair, accurate and informed by understanding of the subject.

The way I'd differentiate this? Take two examples, reviewing a hypothetical 'bad' deck. Let's say the art looks terrible, the symbolism off and the interpretation lacklustre.

An unfair and unconstructive review would call the art terrible, the artist talentless, that they should just give up, and so on. They might call the deck shallow, the writing bad. I haven't seen any reviews like this, but evidently some people do experience this. And it's a terrible example of reviewing. If you vocally hate the whole work, it tends to translate to an attack on the artist themselves.

If there are problems, rather point to specifics. That gives the artist something to work with and makes your involvement generative as opposed to destructive. Identifying hands, the colouring media or method, the perspective or layout as areas that need work are much less painful, as they don't thwack the totality of the thing.It shows them that there is the potential to improve and that there's a future for them. Calling an artist talentless ignores the fact that talent is largely an accumulation of practise and errors.

In some cases I see hypothetical decks-in-progress advertised by potential creators. The feedback is usually, lacklustrely, positive, out of kindness. But these creators might put a lot of resources into the deck- financial and emotional. If the deck's objectively poor and doesn't sell, that's a crushing disappintment as well as a financial loss. And the cost could be considerable, decks are expensive to produce en masse.

It's equally distressing if a Kickstarter fails, as it's a very public reminder of something which didn't succeed. That could also impact on any later projects, when the artist is more developed and ready.

In those cases, gently saying their art skills need more work early on is perhaps kinder than encouragement, which sometimes only serves the giver.

Another real problem is that really good artists tend to be good self-critics. Creating anything is a series of hundreds of tiny decisions: is this good, or does it look bad? And why? When you filter out anything negative it can stop you improving. People who only love their own work often struggle to become skilled, as they lack the ego-detachment necessary to see it as it sits in reality. This self-criticism of course needs to be fair, or you will just stop entirely.

It's very true that the art is not the only important thing. I've liked decks which weren't very well drawn, but had really original ideas and which read extremely well. But if anyone gets consistently awful reviews, I'd suggest taking some time to practise and take time out to build skills. Sometimes it can be very difficult to judge how good your art is; when I'm working on something I often need to put it away for weeks before I can tell if it worked or not. This even if it's an area I'm fairly adept in. Things have a habit of transforming in dark cupboards, what seemed gold can become dross and vice-versa.

Thank you got your kind comments Reallk

Here's a question, mostly for the deck creators here.

Do you submit your decks (for free) to reviewers because you really want their opinions of your work OR are you using them to promote your work hoping to get a few sales out of their review?

I'll answer first, as a small indie creator, sending off free decks is kind of a hardship and I only do it when I think a review will help me get a few sales. I'm not especially seeking the validation of any individual reviewer. That is simply the truth.

I've said before that people enjoy tarot in all kinds of ways. Some people enjoy doing reviews and unboxing videos and that kind of thing. But I feel like anyone who gives a really bad review to a deck overestimates the value of their opinion, of their validation. I'm also not a big fan of reviews that ding the deck for what isn't there. That just seems an odd way to approach a review, to me. It's really the definition of "subjective" as opposed to objective. Objective is not the same as unbiased, which is impossible. Objective just means you take something for what it is without imposing preconceived notions of what you think it should be.

When I first began publishing (books rather than cards), I often used to receive requests for copies for review. The results were mostly good, but occasionally seemed unfair - someone posted that it was obvious that the first novel had ended the way it did in order to promote the two planned sequels. This idea spread on Bookcrossing - this was years ago, before Facebook etc. - until it seemed to have been accepted as fact. The truth was that I had planned two sequels, but had 'lived' the main character and was totally 'paganned-out' by the end of the first book. I sent a PM to the poster to explain, but she didn't pass this on in the thread, so it seemed sensible not to comment further.

The crunch came with a request for cards, which were all small Limited Editions in those days - supposedly from - I seem to remember a radio? reviewer in either Australia or New Zealand who said they'd update me on the result. I never heard from her again. I suppose it's possible that it never arrived. but that was it for me.

So much about Tarot is subjective, so "bad" reviews seem pretty unfair. There are many decks that don't resonate with me that others love, and vice versa. I know that the Haindl deck, which often confounds people in readings, has imagery that really draws me in. A "10 Worst" list seems like an unnecessary and mean-spirited idea.

Re: sending out promotional decks for advance review... I have considered this, but ultimately found it cost-prohibitive. Printing a small run of preview decks is shockingly expensive. Also, if there are other elements that accompany the deck -- a book, carry case, a reading cloth, etc., it would be a disservice to a reviewer for them to not get the "full experience," so to speak. Especially when it seems like these perks are very important to some people who are potential customers.

Perhaps this issue ventures cross-topic with the "Consuming the Tarot" thread -- has the contemporary experience of Tarot strayed too far away from the cards themselves? It it too focused on aesthetic and bells and whistles?

I heard something interesting today that made me think of this topic.

I was listening to a podcast with 2 film reviewers doing their "10 Worst" list for 2021. It was recorded back in December.
This episode was the last 3 in their lists (they each had one) so the #3, #2 and the #1 Worst Film(s) of 2021
These 2 are usually full of things to say about films, especially bad ones.

But both of them were strangely unable to say much at all about these films. When they finally got to the end, each naming their pick for worst film, neither had anything to say. Nothing. So they talked about that because they were surprised. They could both see something had changed.

They decided that it just wasn't fun anymore talking about how bad something was. The last 2 years of world events had just left them uninterested in films they don't like. They can't be bothered to talk about them.

Maybe it's enough just to say, "This (film, deck, book, etc) just didn't do it for me." No need to elaborate.

I heard 2 professional movie reviewers basically not review movies today because they have grown and changed as humans and are only interested in discussing what they find interesting. Imagine that.

Could it be that there's already enough negativity and complaining in the world?
While I love hearing people discuss all these topics, do I really need them telling me if it's "good" or "bad?" What I really want to know is, is it interesting.

A few years ago on a Tarot podcast that I co-hosted we decided to do an episode discussing every deck that we had seen previewed for the coming year.

For the most part we were glowing about all of the decks we saw, but I think we felt that we needed to be a little balanced so we critiqued a deck neither of us liked, giving the caveat that art was subjective but this just wasn’t for us - I think we went so far as to say it looked like a 70s album cover, a style neither of were into.

In four or five years of recording that podcast we received exactly one email. It was from the creator of the deck we didn’t like. They weren’t happy about it and said we sort of needed to broaden our tastes. I felt horrible. I still feel horrible. That poor person listened to us bash his deck without being there to defend it.

So I agree with you, our tiny little corner of the world doesn’t need a Worst List.

To be honest, with the state of online discussions, I don’t think we even need a top 10 Worst Big Budget Hollywood films of the year list. It seems so important for people to bash things, it’s become a bit joyless to discuss them online.

@Thelder absolutely agree on wait for All images/review before impulse buy!
esp as I know what im looking for in my *working & art deck checklist!

regarding publisher as far as i know after signing up their artwork artist practically hands over all *production aka printer work to publisher who usually have its own printer it works with regardless any complaints,,, only hope artist keep some copyright so it can at least print limited edt with ks or pod? btw most people are usually happy to sign up contract with publisher and forget to check copyright (if they keep any or if it expire after 10years etc)

@jobarghest imho Art is Art regardless who or how it’s made, one can always say it’s not what you expect Art to be or not your taste no need to be mean about it and offend artist regardless how good/bad you think they are, & constructive critic where one point what can be improved is always welcome!
as you say working & practice is always good thing!
but if one feels inspired to crate a deck and write a book or whatevr its always better to do it Now even if it may not end up perfect there will still be plenty people who will recognize idea and see it perfectly in their mind! instead of waiting for you to *improve whatever you feel need improving before you even start as process alone will take year at least,,, and those who don’t resonate with your sketch idea are likely not to like your *perfected edt as well!

@LStevens you are welcome!

@Joan Marie Both! I like to see how other people react to something i created and share it with world!
Extra sales/ promos are Great Bonus! p.s interesting is what everyone like

imho there is no such thing as *objective as we all have preferences!
there is plenty reviewers and everyone can check their fav whose reviewer style they resonate best!

@Pen never hear about Bookcrossing? bookpublishing is worst! whats wrong with sequels? all best books are trilogies!