Cult of Tarot Forum

I was reading as essay called "What the Bee Knows" (also the title of the book in which it appears) and the author, P.L. Travers tells the story of a little boy who approached her and said he was really two boys, Goodly and Badly, and asked her which one she preferred.

Obviously someone had taught the boy this. Seems an odd thing for a child to conceive of on his own. She considered her answer and thought if she said "Goodly" than "Badly" would be left alone in the wilderness, lost with his badliness. And if she chose the other, than Goodly would suffer that same fate. So she said, "I like them both the same." The boy's anxiety turned instantly to surprise, relief and trust in her which he demonstrated by smiling and taking her hand.

She then went on, (thank you for indulging me as I share my reading habits) to quote the poet Rilke, who said this:

"Have a care! Do not take away my devils. Without them, how shall I find my angels?" - Rainer Maria Rilke

I think these two things, the Rilke quote and the anxious little boy, are very worth considering in relation to shadow work and how we approach it.

What do we intend to do with our shadow side? How will we treat it when we finally meet it face to face? Is it an enemy to be banished or does it seek to be understood, forgiven, embraced, introduced to the angels, integrated into the full self unchanged in spirit but tempered in action?

I'm interested in your thoughts about this. I'm still pondering it myself.

Even though I am generally a fan of Rilke, I find that seeing the shadow ONLY as foil for the angels/goodlies a bit questionable. Night is not the better part of day, cool not the better part of warm.

I really like the story and the quote—and I don’t think it’s necessarily saying the shadow ONLY functions as a foil, but more that if we shut out our devils, we lose access to our angels. We require both for wholeness

I believe angels will be more powerful when there is an exist of devils. It's like a cycle of universe. Born vs death, positive vs negative, good vs bad etc. We need to accept the existance of both at the same time

Oh wow. This is so interesting. Personally I don't see us have "devils" or "angels". It is all part of us. Parts that make a whole. To me I see the shadow side, the parts of us that we choose not to see. Negative OR positive. If you are in a depressed state (as we all move in and out of), the shadow side might be the parts of that we cant see being worthy. You might not see how smart you or that you are an amazing friend. So those would be positive traits that you are not seeing, hence the shadow, but certainly not devils.

WIth that in mind, there is never a pause to do shadow work. You never really know what is going to pop up or what you are needing to work on.

I love reading how others view this or approach this

Forgive my ignorance, but I am still unclear. Not knowing the precise definition, when I see reference to 'shadow work' it leaves me somewhat puzzled.
Is it something distinct from the 'whole'? How?
Is it something fearsome that lurks outside, in the darkness?
Is it something unknowable that you want to uncover?
Is it something diabolical that inhibits positive progress?
Is it something that disturbs peace?
Is it, applying it yourself, a part of yourself that you are ashamed or afraid of?
None of the above? All of the above?

Tag Jorrit wrote: ↑07 Apr 2019, 14:03 None of the above? All of the above?

It's really, "most of the above."

And thank you for asking this question because it makes me realise that we've been talking about it here like everyone knows what it is yet we haven't taken the time to explain what it is.

I'm going to have a go at doing a real quick overview here to answer you question, and something more detailed later.

The Shadow side of the personality is the part of ourselves that we hide from ourselves, also called the unconscious. This is the part of our personality that often makes trouble for us exactly because we don't see it (although others often can). There are many (mostly negative) behaviours in psychology that are attributed to the shadow, the unconscious. That's the really short answer.

Much about the shadow side of our personalities was brought to light by the psychologist Carl Jung who studied it extensively. In fact if you google "carl jung shadow" you'll find a lot. He wrote extensively about it. What is also interesting is Jung used tarot as part of his study. He found the tarot archetypes to represent the latent potentialities of the human psyche and the tendency to form patterns based on the myths people create around themselves.

I would say the shadow is absolutely not unknowable, but you have to make an effort to tease it out and work with it. I don't think it is actually "diabolical" but it can definitely inhibit certain kinds of personal progress.

But there is a lot to it. It could also be the source of much creativity.

It's easy to see why the shadow is a rich topic for psychology. That tarot can be used as a tool for working with it, finding it and understanding it, is an interesting journey for sure. And Carl Jung's extensive and respected work with the shadow side and tarot gives a fair amount of legitimacy to the practice.

I'm going to post some more about this. Maybe open some new topics because I attended a workshop recently given by Mary K. Greer about Jung and Shadow work with tarot. I have a "shadow spread" to share and a list of reading material.

Tag Jorrit wrote: ↑07 Apr 2019, 14:03 Forgive my ignorance, but I am still unclear. Not knowing the precise definition, when I see reference to 'shadow work' it leaves me somewhat puzzled.
Is it something distinct from the 'whole'? How?
Is it something fearsome that lurks outside, in the darkness?
Is it something unknowable that you want to uncover?
Is it something diabolical that inhibits positive progress?
Is it something that disturbs peace?
Is it, applying it yourself, a part of yourself that you are ashamed or afraid of?
None of the above? All of the above?

Gooogling "Jungian Shadow Self" and reading a bit there would be a good be to start, because it is a Jungian concept.

My way of understanding it is that my shadow side is anything within myself that I have rejected or denied expression in my life. For me, it shows itself whenever I'm feeling especially judgemental of other people - which I've found is often a sign that I dislike them because they are doing something that I don't allow within myself and that's threatening to me. And usually, they aren't expressing themselves in a healthy way, but at the same time, it is something that I need to adopt within myself to a degree. Like if I'm thinking "oh my GOD she is so selfish!" it's probably only partly because she is being selfish, but the reason I'm getting a visceral reaction is because I'm not putting myself first in my life. When I go digging into that, I realize that I feel scared to put my needs out there because I worry that if I require too much, I won't be loved and that stems from a rocky childhood where I was semi-adopted and carried fear that I'd be sent back to an abusive home if I wasn't good enough. My shadow self, in this scenario, is a terrified and lonely child, and integrating my shadow means showing her that she is loved unconditionally and that I won't lose everything when I do take steps to ensure that my needs are met. Definitely not a devil influencing me or anything like that, but a part of myself that got stomped on. I saw it originally in those negative reactions to people, but now I see it in more subtle ways - like a resistance and tightening of my throat when my boyfriend smiles and says "hey, just tell me what you need and I'll make it happen!"

So answering your questions.

Is it something distinct from the 'whole'? How?
Nah. It's just the part of the whole that your eyes try to skip.

Is it something fearsome that lurks outside, in the darkness?
Nope, it's inside you.

Is it something unknowable that you want to uncover?
I wouldn't say it's unknowable, nor would I say anyone really naturally wants to uncover it, but it is a conciously made desicion that many people make to decide to uncover it!

Is it something diabolical that inhibits positive progress?
I wouldn't call it diabolical. Often it stems from a place of hurt. But, often, hurt people hurt people. I consider shadow work to be a healing process that is important to break that cycle. It's not the only way to heal, but it is an effective one!

Is it something that disturbs peace?
Is more like... When your peace is disturbed, that's when you are able to see it.

Is it, applying it yourself, a part of yourself that you are ashamed or afraid of?
Yep, that's a part of it!

When it comes down to it, my shadow work will be different than yours, which will be different than anyone else's. It's about your life and your community and what was "good" so you keep those traits and what was "bad" so got rejected. But the "bad" might seem be good things - like someone saying with a sad smile "I used to draw all the time..." is a prime opportunity for shadow work. Why don't they anymore? Cause it was their dream, but their parents made them go to law school. Their creativity was rejected and stifled and healing will mean allowing themselves to have a creative outlet despite any lingering feelings like shame that they might have.

So that night be an easy way for you to suss out a, perhaps, less say shadow aspect. What did you use to do all the time, and don't anymore? Why did you stop? No, really, below that excuse, why did you stop?

Benebel Wen has an intro Shadow work packet that I've been meaning to go through. Maybe it will help you and I get a grip on what they're discussing.

https://benebellwen.files.wordpress.com ... ion-v2.pdf

Tag Jorrit wrote: ↑07 Apr 2019, 14:03 Forgive my ignorance, but I am still unclear. Not knowing the precise definition, when I see reference to 'shadow work' it leaves me somewhat puzzled.

Libra wrote: ↑07 Apr 2019, 17:23 My way of understanding it is that my shadow side is anything within myself that I have rejected or denied expression in my life. For me, it shows itself whenever I'm feeling especially judgemental of other people - which I've found is often a sign that I dislike them because they are doing something that I don't allow within myself and that's threatening to me.

This is the classic, Projection. if you are really looking for your shadow side, pay attention to when you become critical of others. It will tell you a lot about yourself.

In the Mary K Greer workshop about Jung and the Shadow, she gave 4 examples of kind of everyday things we do that reveal or trigger some aspect of our shadow to us (if we are looking for it, that is.)

• 1. You promise yourself you will behave a certain way and then you don't.

For example, you're waiting for some one who is late. You promise yourself when they show up you will be cool about it. Then they show up and instead of being cool you act pissy, exactly what you promised yourself you wouldn't do. That's the shadow.

• 2. You stubbornly stick to an opinion past the point it makes any sense to do so, unable to let it go.

• 3. Acting like a child, petulant.

• 4. Not doing something you want to do because you think you aren't good enough.

She asked us to choose one of these 4, and think of an actual situation when we knew we had behaved this way.

Then we drew 3 cards, 1 Minor, 1 Court, and 1 Trump.
The Minor = When does this happen?
The Court = What energy is at play?
The Trump = The Archetypal energy involved.

It was an interesting beginner shadow work exercise.

Ah, yes. The dark side. Thank you Joan Marie and Libra for your lengthy, thoughtful and lucid replies. And Charlie Brown for the reference. Lots to think about.

Interesting... the Shadow, as I understand it, includes both things that we need to discover and things that we need to be protected from, at least for the time being. It's not all there to be uncovered for our benefit. For example, I was recently in a pretty bad accident that I don't remember. The event was pushed into my shadow realm.

Once I started to drive again (took a few months) I had moments that would flash me back to experience that event (split seconds only), but that I had to quickly push away, back into shadowland, in order to stay safe on the road. As soon as I "remembered" any part of the accident I would be gripped with fear and unable to function.

I still don't remember the accident and have no particular need or desire to do so.

IMHO, Joseph Campbell NAILED it in Transformations of Myth Through Time, in a lecture about the Bardo Thodol.
Seriously good stuff. http://www.ninagryphon.com/joseph-campb ... to-virtue/

“I think it’s Nietzsche who said, ‘be careful, lest in casting out your devil, you cast out the best thing that’s in you.’ Many people who have been psychoanalyzed are like filleted fish. Their character is gone. If you are nasty, be nasty, but turn around the energy, the shakti.” (Joseph Campbell p 178)

I like the Buddhist idea of turning it around, putting it to work for you. If you try to smash it down, repress it, disenfranchise it, it'll come up and bite you in the a**. That's what we're seeing with a lot of clergy, a lot of religious people who come off as plain crazy and/or evil. They've made the mistake of thinking they can exorcise it, or get Jesus to exorcise it, and they go crazy. You can't be at war with yourself and stay sane. As the old saw goes, "No matter where you go, there you are."

I don't know if we actually descend through realms when we die, and I don't think anybody actually knows. But the Bardo Thodol is certainly worth reading, and Campbell had some incisive explanations:

"In embracing the shakti, Akshobhya is “‘turning about’ his energy, his shakti to the aim of illumination. Your vice is your virtue. The quality here is tenacity, and the negative aspect of tenacity is stubbornness. If your virtue is stubbornness, hold it, don’t lose it. This is one of the problems of renovating one’s character.” (Joseph Campbell p 178)

“…Ratnasambhava, ‘born of a jewel.’ Embraced by his shakti “Buddha-Eyes,” his quality is beauty. And what’s the vice? Pride. If your pride is in your beauty, hold to it, but turn it about, so that the beauty that you are proud of is your spiritual beauty. Then you will cultivate that. Do not get rid of your vice. If it’s pride, make the pride work to your illumination, not to your degradation.” (Joseph Campbell p 178)

“Embraced by his shakti, known as the ‘Woman in White,’ his (Amitabha's) quality is mercy, compassion. And what do you suppose the vice would be? Attachment–attachment to that being for whom you feel love. If you die with that attachment you will be reborn in the world of the hungry ghosts. They have ravenous bellies and pinpoint mouths, so they can never eat what they desire.” (Joseph Campbell p 180)

"If we are unable to hold to the Amitabha, the ominous northern Buddha, Amoghasiddhi, appears. His name means “he who will not be turned from the achievement of his aim,” and his “virtue is tenacity of purpose, not simply holding to where you are but holding with conscious intention. The negative aspect is belligerence, and if you die in this context, you will be reborn in the realm of the antigods, the demons, the fighting gods.” (Joseph Campbell p 181)

I believe Jung thought his ideas on the shadow had been misinterpreted. He hadn't intended the concept to be so gloomy. The shadow is simply the unconscious, that which we are not conscious of. The unconscious includes our higher spiritual centres as well as our instinctual drives. ALL parts of our being need to be consciously acknowledged or they start to get rambunctious. Consciously realising that we are, say, angry is enough to satisfy that part of our being. We don't need to act on that emotion at all - acting out, as it's called. Ignoring it, that is, repressing it, is when the energy gets blocked and the problems start. Moral rules and the necessity to get on well with others in society encourages us to dissociate ourselves from emotions that might cause trouble if we expressed them. But we also ignore messages from our higher centres all the time. So shadow work is not always working with "negative" emotions and dark imagery. We generally have low opinions of ourselves so we tend to think we are ignoring terrible truths in our own being, but we probably do more damage by not being aware of how wonderful and radiant we are. That is also part of shadow work.

Joan Marie wrote: ↑22 Dec 2018, 11:49
What do we intend to do with our shadow side? How will we treat it when we finally meet it face to face? Is it an enemy to be banished or does it seek to be understood, forgiven, embraced, introduced to the angels, integrated into the full self unchanged in spirit but tempered in action?

If we do not embrace it and love it, it will forever remain an enemy. And there will always be a fear lurking somewhere that it may return and fear takes many forms like a shapeshifter. Love is invincible and therefore all powerful. Nothing can destroy It so there is no place for an enemy. It's sort of unnecessary.

Professor Dumbledore had some great things to say about the power of Love.

edited to add: dodalisque: I loved your "rambunctious"!!! Had to look it up in the dictionary though. But what a great word!!!

All the above rings true, and I'll try my own working definition - the Shadow is the unconscious mind with its impulses, drives and socially unacceptable desires, drives and fears. It's also the negative messages we give ourselves about ourselves. It's also the painful memories of failures, wrong decisions, embarrassments, all these dark spots that I'd love to photoshop out of my past, that I don't acknowledge and push away instead of dealing with it.

J.K. Rowling found, as she often does, a wonderful metaphor for it when Professor Slughorn tampers with his own memories to hide a moment of horrible weakness from others but also himself. Only after Harry appeals to his better self and his positive memories, Slughorn can dig out the truth.

We can't make it all light and bright and good. Some of our decisions, words and actions are driven by self interest, fear or warped thinking. Sometimes we repeat the same mistake and never stop to think about it because it's too painful and we don't even want to start unpicking that pattern and begin a new one.

All this is the shadow. In the book Spiritual Tarot, the authors say the following about the Devil, page 83:

This card embodies the Jungian idea that demands for growth often come from the shadow aspects of ourselves, and that acknowledging our shadows releases creative energy.

According to Jungian author Robert Johnson, the shadow is our "dumping ground". It is where bigotry, violence, rebellion, revenge, repressed sexuality - and any of the other many ways we humiliate, override, or dehumanize another - reside. It is also where he die our "untamed" or uncivilized instincts, especially sexual ones. We tend to see these things first in other people, and the challenge of this card is to identify what angers or scares us about others and accept them once again as aspects of ourselves."

This was my first tarot book and the first time I met the concept of the shadow. The authors introduce the shadow in the introduction, too, and it's too long for me to copy but very concise and helpful. It's "the long bag we drag behind" (quote within a quote - page 12 from Spiritual Tarot where they quote Robert Bly). We can never get rid of it, it's part of being human. But there is stuff in that bag we can make better use of. Tarot helps us to find it and re-purpose it so from being a weight that we drag around, it becomes a stepping stone for growth.

Wow, I'm mixing my metaphors here horribly!

And off I went to Amazon to download the Kindle sample of Robert Bly's book....

dodalisque wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 21:09 But we also ignore messages from our higher centres all the time. So shadow work is not always working with "negative" emotions and dark imagery. We generally have low opinions of ourselves so we tend to think we are ignoring terrible truths in our own being, but we probably do more damage by not being aware of how wonderful and radiant we are. That is also part of shadow work.

I have wondered about exactly this many times. Using the term "shadow" is about finding what is hidden, it does not necessarily mean finding what is "dark". So, as you said, what is hidden could just as easily be something brilliant that we don't recognise.

And not recognising and acknowledging those parts of ourselves, is just as limiting, just as harmful as not recognising our "darker" impulses.

Think about a time maybe when someone complimented something wonderful about your character and the information came as a total shock to you, but when you thought about it, you could see it too. Funny how we can take criticism to heart so much easier than compliments. And you don't need a very big imagination to be able to think of some outside forces of family, school, religion, & society that actively (if not always consciously) serve to "help" us to repress our radiance.

Yeah, I'm down for using shadow work to find out what is radiant about me.

-I have to note this: as I wrote that last sentence, it felt kind of arrogant. And I was concerned that to others it might sound conceited. The truth is, it could be. It could be, if in seeking my "radiance" I become arrogant and conceited. Who taught me that? Why did I put radiance in quotes? Why is it so okay to acknowledge our failings (ad-nauseam at times), and not our gifts? It's like we don't even learn how to do it without being a jerk.

We aren't shown, we aren't taught that particular grace.

I have wondered about exactly this many times. Using the term "shadow" is about finding what is hidden, it does not necessarily mean finding what is "dark". So, as you said, what is hidden could just as easily be something brilliant that we don't recognise.

Joan Marie

It is not always easy to tell the dark from the light. Pink Floyd said “So you think you can tell heaven from hell.”and they were right it's not always simple.
There is an augument that says the reasons for the Hig hpriestess's veil is that if you see beyond it to soon everything looks like monsters.

The Mary El has been a good deck for me when looking at this sort of thing.

Joan Marie wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 08:07 Yeah, I'm down for using shadow work to find out what is radiant about me.

-I have to note this: as I wrote that last sentence, it felt kind of arrogant. And I was concerned that to others it might sound conceited. The truth is, it could be. It could be, if in seeking my "radiance" I become arrogant and conceited. Who taught me that? Why did I put radiance in quotes? Why is it so okay to acknowledge our failings (ad-nauseam at times), and not our gifts? It's like we don't even learn how to do it without being a jerk.

We aren't shown, we aren't taught that particular grace.

There's a wonderful writer about these matters named Carolyn Elliot, who has written books and gives online seminars and podcasts, and who strikes me as a dependable authority on all things witchy. Unconventional, jargon-free, and very funny. These are not just theoretical arguments for her. You feel like she's lived it.

Joan Marie wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 08:07 Yeah, I'm down for using shadow work to find out what is radiant about me.

I suppose this subject must be related to the idea of "self-sabotage". The moment I realise I have a great round of golf in the making you can guarantee that the next shot is going to be into the lake. We feel like we don't deserve to succeed. Convincing ourselves we deserve to be rich is difficult for most of us too. There's a certain amount of fear involved whenever we step beyond our "conscious set" - that is, our established view of who we are in the world. I associate this barrier we need to get past with the Emperor card. Especially in the TdM he looks like a roadblock. He knows what has worked in the past and if a new idea comes along, even a good one, he will deny it entry into our consciousness. He's a protector, and we need him to keep back dangerous torrents of bad ideas, but he's too good at his job and if we get stuck in front of the Emperor indefinitely our lives become repetitive and boring. Taking tiny risks or doing some little thing differently - like wearing your shirt inside out for a day or using your left hand instead of the right to open doors - teaches us how to get used to the feeling of tricking our way past the Emperor. Sorry if this sounds as though I am drifting away from the topic of the Shadow but I feel as though the ideas are closely related somehow. If the Emperor is our Ego then the region behind him - i.e. the rest of the Major Arcana (cards V to XXI) - is in shadow.

You are going to learn how to shake hands with the devil, and to do a little jig with him, and recognize his face to be your own. For when you can dance with the darkness that you have created, that darkness is transformed into an angel. And Light abides with Light.

(From the Jeshua channellings to Jayem).

Would the shadow side just not simply be the Ego ? Just one shadow, and not many ?

Marigold wrote: ↑18 Jun 2019, 18:31 Would the shadow side just not simply be the Ego ? Just one shadow, and not many ?

I feel like I'm going out on a limb here. Because what I'm about to write flies in the face of the entire concept of "The Shadow."

This morning I was looking for a journal to write in and I found an old one whose last entry was July 8th, 2018, so about a year ago. I'm just going to transcribe it here in all it's imperfection:

What if the unconscious is our better angels and it's our conscious mind that causes all the trouble?

It's the conscious mind that conceived of, or understood the existence of the unconscious and then convinced us it was the seat of the so-called "Shadow," this place that houses all our darkness and supposedly keeps it "hidden" from us. Isn't it the conscious mind that is constantly distracting us and telling us useless things and driving our decisions and behaviour?

Maybe our unconscious isn't really hidden, it's just the part of ourselves that realizes there's nothing really there. It lets go instead of hanging onto things. It isn't weighed down by the ego, it simply..is.

Instead of rooting out our "shadow" as the cause of all our pain and discontent, we could be searching for the seat of happiness and contentment. In the process we'd be able to let go of any notions of good and bad (see my original post) that we harbor and just learn to be.

It's the conscious mind, the one we live with day in day out that is harboring trauma. Our behaviour is observable. It isn't hidden. The only thing hidden is the "you" before the trauma. Our true selves are "hidden from us in the unconscious while we live with the ravages of our conscious minds trying to deal with everything.

The conscious mind keeps us alive. It gets us our food and money. It does the dishes. We get so used to using it, that we lose the ability to access the unconscious which is the seat of our joy.

Maybe the unconscious isn't the shadow. Maybe it's the light.

Pease don't take this random journal entry as my attempt at a kind of new philosophy of the shadow. It's just a little poke in the ribs that might shake loose another idea. I know some of it sound like gibberish, I just transcribed it as is.

I'm not suggesting the Shadow doesn't exist, I'm just raising the question that maybe we are looking for it in the wrong place.

I am entirely prepared for someone to tell me I have lost the plot with this post. I'm very close to just deleting it.. but here I go..

I suspect you're partly correct.
Not 100% - there's things down in the pit that are best left there - but why wouldn't it be good AND bad, just like everything else?

Joan Marie wrote: ↑25 Jun 2019, 11:50

Maybe our unconscious isn't really hidden, it's just the part of ourselves that realizes there's nothing really there. It lets go instead of hanging onto things. It isn't weighed down by the ego, it simply..is.

Instead of rooting out our "shadow" as the cause of all our pain and discontent, we could be searching for the seat of happiness and contentment. In the process we'd be able to let go of any notions of good and bad (see my original post) that we harbor and just learn to be.

It's the conscious mind, the one we live with day in day out that is harboring trauma. Our behaviour is observable. It isn't hidden. The only thing hidden is the "you" before the trauma. Our true selves are "hidden from us in the unconscious while we live with the ravages of our conscious minds trying to deal with everything.

(.........................)

Maybe the unconscious isn't the shadow. Maybe it's the light.

I think your post was absolutely beautiful Joan Marie.

When you speak of notions of good and bad, in all the writings of the mystics and great spiritual teachers and revelators that I have come across, they always insist that all events are neutral. Nothing is bad nor good, until we place a value upon them.

The unconscious that you mention that may not be the shadow, but the light, reminds me of what my dear mum used to tell me again and again while I was growing up (I think she really didn't want me to forget it, so often she repeated it. My mother was a student of metaphysics.) She would tell me "Diana, remember this : NOTHING can ever take away your birthright which is maybe hidden under the dross of human existence, but which is your only true being and nature. It is pure and perfect." The trick I think is to be CONSCIOUS of this unconscious, until it becomes so vivid that the conscious - the ego - has no more place to survive and just vanishes.