This forum is officially closed. It will however remain online and active in a limited form for the time being.

more readings about the covid-19 virus

Explore the philosophical and existential questions of life with the Tarot. Jump into an ongoing conversation or start a new one!
Post Reply
User avatar
chiscotheque
Sage
Posts: 488
Joined: 18 May 2018, 13:49

more readings about the covid-19 virus

Post by chiscotheque »

The Covid pandemic has brought from the shadows many structural problems in society - problems which many people know about first hand, but which the elites never have to face, don't care about, and are in many cases ideologically opposed to. There has been some suggestion that - and I have wondered myself openly if - the pandemic will force people to redress the inefficiencies in the medical systems of nations, their economic and employment sectors, and the world's emergency preparedness generally.

Question: Will the Covid pandemic compel people to improve the ailing infrastructures of globalist western nations, or will it simply cause confusion, panic, illness, death, and ultimately revert to the status quo?

Deck: The Shakespeare Tarot

Card: The Sun XIX King Lear (with Gloucester)
SUN LEAR 19.jpg

Answer: First, I would note that the card is number 19. Both Lear and Gloucester are old men - Lear is in his 80s - reflecting those most vulnerable to Covid 19. Gloucester is abused by his bastard son, as payback for mistreatment by his father. this echoes the resentment felt by millennials, some of whom openly relish the demise of the "boomers". There are, of course, also those who love and are caring for their parents and the older generation, as exemplified by Gloucester's other son Edgar. Lear, meantime, has openly betrayed the one daughter who was loyal to him, and his arrogance and privilege will be his undoing. when he finally comes around to see the error of his ways, it is only accomplished through the illness of insanity and it is too little, too late - many end up paying with their lives for Lear's mistakes, including Lear himself.

As much as I'd like to interpret King Lear as foretelling Donald Trump and his daughter Ivanka will succumb to the virus, I have to say it suggests that many people will be affected negatively, in large part by the selfishness, blindness, and incompetence of our elder statesmen. Some of them that is, since there are very noble and helpful actors at work here - Kent, for instance, who does his best to remain loyal to his sworn duty, akin to the nurses and frontline medical professionals. Also there are other players who do quite well out of it all - France, for instance, suggesting not all nations will behave foolishly.

As for a direct answer to my question, Lear does end with younger people holding the reigns of power; young people who are competent and declare:

The weight of this sad time we must obey;
Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say.
The oldest hath borne most: we that are young,
Shall never see so much, nor live so long.

This suggests that the Covid crisis will induce a restructuring, one building on the past but with a renewed vision and insight. I guess we can only hope it will be sufficient, and that it too won't fall prey to hubris and greed.

My take on the Sun card is something of a correction to what I consider the error and over-reach of the RWS Sun card. As such, I've often wondered if maybe I haven't over-corrected, so I decided to pull a card more specifically about the US government's reaction to the crisis and from a more benign deck, generally speaking - The Charles Dickens Tarot.

Card: 10 of Fire - The Circumlocution Office
10 circumlocution.jpg

Ha. This is both hilarious and scary. The Circumlocution Office is a governmental ministry in the novel Little Dorrit which is the model of bureaucratic inefficiency, passing the buck, ineptitude, and justice delayed and hence denied. Dickens invented the ministry as a satirical attack on the criminal incompetence of the British government's handling of the Crimean War. Curiously, Little Dorrit begins with a group of travelers in quarantine, concerns profiteering, and the false worlds of plutocratic elites. I'm afraid it doesn't bode well as a harbinger of how the US will restructure its country's social apparatus.

On one bright note, however, the novel's male protagonist Arthur Clennam is the character who pursues the Circumlocution Office for solutions to his problems whereas it is the novel's poor eponymous heroine, Little Dorrit, who saves the day through her own common sense, dedication, and a modicum of good luck. Also, taking a broader perspective, the public outcry after the Crimean War did cause the government to make reforms and saw the institution of clean hospitals and nursing schools spear-headed by Florence Nightengale. Dickens himself, as a social critic, was able to alert people to problems, alter their opinions, and effect change in society. Perhaps, then, the implication is that this pandemic will bring social inequalities out into the open, see government held to account, and broaden the discussion. Just as Dickens used the novel - and Shakespeare the stage - perhaps one of the biggest changes will be in the area of media, from the vast internet to the specific vocabulary of the language we all use.



.
User avatar
Diana
Sage
Posts: 1882
Joined: 13 May 2019, 17:23

Re: more readings about the covid-19 virus

Post by Diana »

An outstanding reading as usual. Thanks so much. I needed this today.

chiscotheque wrote: 29 Mar 2020, 18:24

As much as I'd like to interpret King Lear as foretelling Donald Trump and his daughter Ivanka will succumb to the virus, I have to say it suggests that many people will be affected negatively, in large part by the selfishness, blindness, and incompetence of our elder statesmen. Some of them that is, since there are very noble and helpful actors at work here - Kent, for instance, who does his best to remain loyal to his sworn duty, akin to the nurses and frontline medical professionals. Also there are other players who do quite well out of it all - France, for instance, suggesting not all nations will behave foolishly.
As much as I would also like to interpret King Lear as you did, it is heartening is it not to think that there is now a window open to get rid of the decrepit powers that have been destroying the soul of the planet and all that inhabit it. Your reading certainly gives reason for optimism. I think though that your reading may not be inclusive of the whole world. I would think it is referring more to Western countries and Western democracies. I can't imagine this creating much change in countries like China and Russia for instance, where the power is so entrenched. I would be curious to do a reading as to whether this change which I believe will be coming, and your reading confirms it, will also have any effect on those other powers, even in the long term perhaps by ripple effect. I suppose we'll have to wait and see how this pandemic pans out in countries like Russia and India, Pakistan and others. India's method of containing it so inhumane that it's dystopian. In India there are most likely going to be millions of people affected, there will be hunger and even more poverty (!), so something may take place. If the people have nothing left to lose. But could this take place without great political upheaval? There are countries where civil war could break out. Can you imagine a civil war breaking out between the Hindus and the Muslims? 😨

Your cards spoke nothing of social upheaval and that surprises me. Perhaps things will go more smoothly, like the Velvet Revolution of Czechoslovakia? But surely all this will also lead to more "migrants" as they like to call them. God, I hate that word. Makes them sound like some kind of insect. Like an ant that migres. Can't we call them what they are, i.e. refugees? Regardless of whether they're "political" or "economic" refugees. I mean how can one divorce the political from the economic?

I have many many questions to ask the Tarot regarding future events and the evolution over the next decades. I hope I'll still be alive to see some real and positive and lasting change. It would be nice to close my eyes with that happy thought.

As for a direct answer to my question, Lear does end with younger people holding the reigns of power; young people who are competent and declare:

The weight of this sad time we must obey;
Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say.
The oldest hath borne most: we that are young,
Shall never see so much, nor live so long.

This suggests that the Covid crisis will induce a restructuring, one building on the past but with a renewed vision and insight. I guess we can only hope it will be sufficient, and that it too won't fall prey to hubris and greed.
My thought went immediately to Sanna Marin, the Finnish Prime Minister. She's 34 years old! And doesn't come from an upper class elite. On the contrary. She's a true daughter of the working class. She's the first I think of her family to go to University, having paid for it by working in a bakery and as a cashier.

There are many more like her in the wings. I've joined many school strike climate demonstrations and I have seen an energy amongst these youngsters that I've not seen for a long time. They are organised, democratic, intelligent - they ask advice from the elders if they feel it would be helpful, but don't bow down to age. I've listened to their speeches and read all their leaflets and all I can say is "at last....". It's been several decades that I haven't sensed such energy, at least here in Western Europe, but the time wasn't right at that moment and the window closed too quickly. But there were also signs in France with the Yellow Vests movement that the people, "le peuple" were ready to move. The governments here eye the Yellow Vests movement with quite a bit of anxiety. Especially as it has no designated leader. They hate it when they don't have designated leaders to contend with. They don't understand how it can work.

The last time we saw this kind of desire for change was in the 70s/80s. But there are some echoes also of the Vietnam War and the hippies. The hippies didn't have a program though so they fizzled out. And they were too high and spaced out most of the time. But these youngsters have clear vision and know which steps to take to get there.

I don't think these youngsters' dreams are to go on luxury cruises and sun themselves on the beach in Thailand. They have their future to look after and they are very much aware of this fact. I'm just surprised that they're not more angry with my generation. But then they are wise enough also to know that we were blissfully ignorant for a long time. This was before the age of the internet. They're hugely savvy these youngsters. Also they know we didn't have access to all the scientific research that they have now. I mean, I grew up when people were still smoking cigarettes in cinemas and in cars with children. No-one had a clue that cigarettes were causing such health problems.

Sanna Marin's cabinet is a good reflection of this balance between the youth and the elders. And of course perfectly gender balanced too. Now she didn't expect to have to deal with a pandemic so early on in her young political career. So I hope that she finds the strength and people she can rely on fully and that everyone will support her regardless of partisan lines. I'm standing here cheering her on in the sidelines.


Ha. This is both hilarious and scary. The Circumlocution Office is a governmental ministry in the novel Little Dorrit which is the model of bureaucratic inefficiency, passing the buck, ineptitude, and justice delayed and hence denied. Dickens invented the ministry as a satirical attack on the criminal incompetence of the British government's handling of the Crimean War. Curiously, Little Dorrit begins with a group of travelers in quarantine, concerns profiteering, and the false worlds of plutocratic elites. I'm afraid it doesn't bode well as a harbinger of how the US will restructure its country's social apparatus.

On one bright note, however, the novel's male protagonist Arthur Clennam is the character who pursues the Circumlocution Office for solutions to his problems whereas it is the novel's poor eponymous heroine, Little Dorrit, who saves the day through her own common sense, dedication, and a modicum of good luck. Also, taking a broader perspective, the public outcry after the Crimean War did cause the government to make reforms and saw the institution of clean hospitals and nursing schools spear-headed by Florence Nightengale. Dickens himself, as a social critic, was able to alert people to problems, alter their opinions, and effect change in society. Perhaps, then, the implication is that this pandemic will bring social inequalities out into the open, see government held to account, and broaden the discussion. Just as Dickens used the novel - and Shakespeare the stage - perhaps one of the biggest changes will be in the area of media, from the vast internet to the specific vocabulary of the language we all use.



.
Oh, we saw the Circumlocution Office in another reading, I recall. What a perfectly apt card for the bumblings of some countries. Dither dather dother, like old fuzzy senile men wondering where they've left their glasses when they're sitting right on top of their heads.

I'd like to hear more about Arthur Clennam. What's his character like? I can't quite place him in the picture.

Little Dorrit, well she must be our lovely Joan of Arc, the sweet and brave Greta Thunberg and all those like her. I assume that Greta Thunberg will be going into politics one day. She has inspired a whole generation that young woman. And also other generations.

You speak of the internet. All this change won't be possible without the internet. The pandemic came at just the right moment. Twenty years ago and it would be a different story and a lot more lies could be told. They can't lie anymore. It's funny sometimes how things come together.... almost as if it were predetermined...
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
User avatar
Diana
Sage
Posts: 1882
Joined: 13 May 2019, 17:23

Re: more readings about the covid-19 virus

Post by Diana »

It's these kind of scenes that bother me. Much more even than people dying in hospitals.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia- ... -migration

Not sure how this fits with social distancing. And they were given four hours warning.

Us Western folk and developed countries, we'll have some serious economic problems. There will be some hardship. And funerals. And it'll take a long time to get back to some semblance of normalcy.

But the real tragedy will be for the other countries. And that is what haunts me. In the West,it seems that people's main concern was toilet paper as if it's the most precious commodity in the world. For god's sake - use water if you have no more paper. Or a newspaper with Trump's face on it. I feel like yelling at everyone "look at the big picture instead of gazing at your bloody navels. There are much bigger tragedies unfolding, and they're not in the hospitals". The first case has arrived in Syria. My blood went cold when I heard that.

There. That was my addendum to my post.

And my fears of a police state are also valid for some countries. Like Hungary where Orban will most likely soon be able to rule by decree.

But the cards are optimistic, so I will hold onto that. All the Tarot readings being done all over the world have pointed to something good and positive. They can't all be wrong can they?
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
User avatar
chiscotheque
Sage
Posts: 488
Joined: 18 May 2018, 13:49

Re: more readings about the covid-19 virus

Post by chiscotheque »

can all the cards be wrong? probably. however, the fault is not in the stars but in human error. personally, i don't see the Lear & Circumlocution cards as positive, but i admire your optimism, Diana.I especially like your interpretation of Little Dorrit as Greta Thunberg. before i did the reading, I hesitated because I thought it was too vast a topic, especially to evaluate with my usual one-card draw, and I wasn't sure i I wanted to spend all day evaluating even that one card! the plot of Lear does indeed suggest civil war - the kingdom is divided, and a foreign power leverages that disquiet to invade. younger people do take charge - edmund, goneril, regan - and the first two at least are very competent; however, they are also scoundrels. i was involved for a time with the Occupy movement and saw first hand the variety of people involved there - some very well-meaning, some very misguided. I dare say your perspective, Diana, is more positive because it reflects the situation with Europe's young people, whereas mine reflects the situation with North America's youth. That said, the problems are as timeless and old as Lear (circa. 2nd Century BC).

as for Arthur Clennam, he's a totally forgettable figure. he's very much an 'average" character. the women in his life - his mother and Amy Dorrit - are much stronger than him. he comes from wealth - his family having made their money unscrupulously in China with the opium wars. he becomes an entrepreneur but is unsuccessful. he loses his family fortune, and it is Little Dorrit who nurses him back to health and join together in penury, wedded bliss, and typical Dickensian manner.

as for the multifarious aspect of the crisis, and its ever-changing potential, it seems like more questions generally, and more specific questions specifically, need to be asked.


.
User avatar
dodalisque
Sage
Posts: 622
Joined: 25 May 2018, 22:11

Re: more readings about the covid-19 virus

Post by dodalisque »

chiscotheque wrote: 29 Mar 2020, 18:24 First, I would note that the card is number 19.
I just have to say that only you could randomly draw card 19 to answer a question about Covid-19.
User avatar
Diana
Sage
Posts: 1882
Joined: 13 May 2019, 17:23

Re: more readings about the covid-19 virus

Post by Diana »

dodalisque wrote: 05 Apr 2020, 22:29

I just have to say that only you could randomly draw card 19 to answer a question about Covid-19.
I don't know how chiscotheque always does this. I said it a long time ago but say it again, it's spooky. 😵 He must have some kind of superpower and I'd like to know where he bought it so I can also have it. But what are the odds that he won't tell.
Rumi was asked “which music sound is haram?” Rumi replied, "The sound of tablespoons playing in the pots of the rich, which are heard by the ears of the poor and hungry." (haram means forbidden)
Post Reply

Return to “Plato's Cave”