Trying to date a Grimaud deck

[John_F_May]

Hello!
I recently got a copy of the Grimaud-Marseille deck in this –for me– unusual packaging.
[Perfect expression of the "mass market" concept, I would say ]

Can anyone help me date this deck without unbox it? Tnx!

Here are some photos:

[Thelder]

Ancien Tarot de Marseille by Paul Marteau is my favorite TdM deck, so I usually notice when an unusual version, like yours, appears for sale on eBay. I remember seeing a couple of these for sale, but I don't recall seeing a date listed. I believe the edition of the tarot box that is inside the outer package was first published in 1980, so your item would be dated 1980 or later. The name France Cartes of Saint-Max on the front of the package is the parent company of Grimaud. The cards should have the name "Grimaud" and the date printed on the left side of each card along the border. My set has the copyright symbol and "Grimaud 1980" on each card.

It is possible that a vendor requested that specific outer packaging so that it could be hung on their specific display posts rather than having the boxes sitting on a shelf.

In the event that someone else on the forum is not able to provide more specific information, I have included four links below for you to investigate.

The first link is to Grimaud's official web page. I am sure that if you were to email them a photo of the item, they might be able to provide some history and date regarding the item. If for some reason you do not speak French, Google Translate is an excellent tool for composing emails in different languages.

The second link is for an online retailer that appears to have this item still for sale (as shown in the second photo on their page). The EAN number on the back of your package matches the EAN number on this vendor's web page. There is a link on the page that say, "Ask the seller a question," so you could always contact them.

The last two links are for the current eBay postings for identical items that are currently for sale. Although neither ad lists a date, you could always use the "Contact the Seller" feature to see if either seller knows anything about the specific date of creation. Both sellers are located in France, so once again, you would need to use Google translate if you do not speak French. Best wishes!

http://cartes-grimaud.fr/

https://www.fnac.com/mp21388793/Ancien- ... a4ff6b0044

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264325170020?m ... olid=10001

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255016475265?m ... olid=10001

[fire cat pickles]

We know it isn't a 1960's deck. The EAN system came into use in the 1970's.

[John_F_May]

In the event that someone else on the forum is not able to provide more specific information, I have included four links below for you to investigate.

Thank you so much for this information!

We know it isn't a 1960's deck. The EAN system came into use in the 1970's.

This is a very clever observation!

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- I own a certainly older deck: copyright "B•P•Grimaud•Paris 1981" → larger and thicker cards; brown box; booklet by Tchalaï Unger; different Ref. number (G 120).

- Current boxes have a redesigned logo on top (see attached image), but from what I understand this is a recent update (→ From Wikipedia: “In 2018, the brand of the French master cardmakers celebrated its 170 years. For the occasion, the logo, cards and cases were redesigned in a modern spirit while keeping past inspirations”)


So, I guess this deck can be dated anytime from the 90s until 2018. Quite a large time frame.

The tacky graphics of the outer packaging make me think of the 90s and early 2000s, but of course that's just my opinion, with no real evidence

I'm afraid it will be very difficult to find a date without opening it, but thanks to the ebay links kindly provided by Thelder, I can imagine they are not especially rare (at least here in Europe), so I think I can open it without too many regrets.

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Newer (after 2018?) top of the box:

Boxes currently on sale

[_R_]

Late 1980s/early 1990s, judging from the box.

[Thelder]

I had one additional thought about this item: The fact that the tarot box is covering the name that runs vertically on the backer card seems a little unprofessional and out of keeping with Grimaud's usually high standards. This could be a further indication that this packaging was a specific request by one vendor. Grimaud may even have used a backer card meant for some other item to fulfill this one request, hence the reason for the deck covering part of the name. If this item had been produced by Grimaud for the mass market, I think they would have taken the time to design the packaging so that it looked more professional and all text was fully visible. If you should decide to open it, I would be interested to know what the name is on the backer card that is hidden by the box.

[John_F_May]

I would be interested to know what the name is on the backer card that is hidden by the box.

The name is DUCALE

The Cartamundi website (current owner of several brands) says that:

“In 1962 the playing cards factories Ducale and Grimaud turned into Ducale-France Cartes. One year later the company became France Cartes. In 2014 France Cartes became part of the Cartamundi Group” and “In the Ducale range different traditional card games are available: Belote, French tarot and Bridge cards”

https://cartamundi.com/en/our-brands/ducale/
https://www.cartes-production.com/fr/re ... h&s=ducale

Probably, this package, originally designed for the display of common decks of cards (branded Ducale), at some point were also used for this Grimaud deck.

[Thelder]

Thanks! Your update answered my question beautifully.