Comparing 2 Thoth editions

[Papageno]

This is an excellent video comparing a gold box Thoth to a U.S. Games large green box printing.

Bear in mind this isn't a big push for the gold box edition, but actually more of a critical examination of the finer points of the Thoth artistry.
The gentleman in this video just happens to use a smaller 2008 German gold box printing by AG Müller Urania/Königsfurt Verlag and compares it to the Large U.S. Games Green Box edition. (no, not a "greenie" from way back when.)

That being said, there are disputed differences between earlier Large Green Box printings and the later ones, the earlier editions being preferred, although I'm unable to specify the years in question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTPsUH_ ... =33&t=565s

[Joan Marie]

This brings up something I've wondered about for a long time.

The Thoth deck has been printed and reprinted so many times over such a long span of time that I really would like to know what the original works of art looked like, how green were the greens etc.

Crowley writes a lot about the use of colour, he's very specific. Lady Harris worked very closely with him to get it right.

But over time with changing techniques in printing and just different printing set-ups, the colours and contrast and saturation etc. have no doubt been altered again and again.

Is there any possibility to see the original works? Or an original print of the deck that maybe Crowley or Harris oversaw?

I feel like we are just guessing at it at this point.

Also, using Crowley's very specific colour guidelines, it might be possible to do a "restoration" of some kind.

I'd buy that deck, a restored Thoth.

I also seriously wonder if either Crowley or Harris had anything to do with that frame, the art nouveau one we all know. It always looked a bit tacked on to me, serving a perfectly functional role design-wise to house the names of the cards and associated symbols.

Does anyone know if there is a version of this Thoth deck that would reflect the original intent and artistic and design choices?

[Papageno]

This brings up something I've wondered about for a long time.

The Thoth deck has been printed and reprinted so many times over such a long span of time that I really would like to know what the original works of art looked like, how green were the greens etc.

Crowley writes a lot about the use of colour, he's very specific. Lady Harris worked very closely with him to get it right.

But over time with changing techniques in printing and just different printing set-ups, the colours and contrast and saturation etc. have no doubt been altered again and again.

People have raised the same points about how to determine exactly what the colors were really supposed to be.
There's been endless discussion and debate about every nuance of the Thoth deck, it's art, creation, etc.
I'm certainly no authority by any means, so in this particular case, regarding this "gold box" edition, I can only provide the following:

Quote from the OTO:

"Around 2007, O.T.O. went to considerable trouble and expense—with very supportive assistance from AGMüller and the Yorke Collection curators—to digitally rephotograph the deck in high resolution, using a (rented!) $100,000 Phase One camera. We even did the typesetting and layout for the new deck in multiple languages, including English, for free—all in the interests of finally getting a version out that would meet Crowley’s and Lady Harris’ exacting standards. We’ve been very disappointed—thus far, it has only appeared in German.
I have compared this printing of the deck to the original paintings, and it is almost perfect. The original paintings have not faded over time, as some have claimed (the originals have always been protected from light, barring brief exhibitions, and are stable Winsor and Newton pigments). The problem is that prior printings have been simply negligent about color correction—which was admittedly harder in the pre-digital era—and in some cases, colors have been “pushed” to get an effect the publisher likes. Matching the subtlety of the paintings themselves is much harder, but clearly worthwhile."
I have posted 5 images of the cards of this edition with the most current English edition to show the differences. The images have more detail and appear softer, with an overall glow.
The Aeon (XX / Judgement) card is a good example for these improvements: The figure in the front is a lot more translucent than in earlier editions and blends in more with the background.
Comparing the 2 editions, it appears as if previously editions have altered the colors and contrast of the original paintings.

The card backs have been re-designed as well, minus the white border and new aspect ratio. 
The aspect ratio of the images is also true to the original paintings.

The card numbers on top are smaller and the type fonts less intrusive. The cards are a overall bit smaller than the standard sized deck, although most of the size difference is due to the added grey borders on the earlier editions.
The actual image size on this edition is 3 3/8 x 2 1/4, the older edition has an image size of 3 1/2 x 2 1/4.

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For the purposes of more easily identifying the various printings of the Thoth decks, The Tarot Garden revived this from their old database:

Crowley's "Thoth" Tarot: Edition Comparison Table
Posted by Jeannette Roth on Jul 14th 2019

"Note: This article and the accompanying table are a transfer from the library of the old Tarot Garden site. It was originally posted in 2006".

http://tarotgarden.com/blog/crowleys-th ... son-table/

[Flaxen]

I'd buy that deck, a restored Thoth.

I’d also love to have one with the intended colours. I do have a copy of the 1986 AGM printing and the colours on that are very rich.

[Maskelyne]

This brings up something I've wondered about for a long time.
I also seriously wonder if either Crowley or Harris had anything to do with that frame, the art nouveau one we all know. It always looked a bit tacked on to me, serving a perfectly functional role design-wise to house the names of the cards and associated symbols.

I don't know what the genesis of the frame was, but it was on the original paintings when they were exhibited in 1941.

[Papageno]

I don't know what the genesis of the frame was, but it was on the original paintings when they were exhibited in 1941.

https://www.wopc.co.uk/tarot/thoth-tarot

excerpt:

"The original paintings were made with wartime materials, and are currently housed in the Warburg Institute, London, where they are beginning to show signs of deterioration."

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Lady Frieda Harris used the best Winsor & Newton paints available, but the chemistry of developing pigments at that time was certainly not as advanced as they are now.

With that being said, the paints were being manufactured during WWII when materials were scarce, so there may have been inherent deficiencies in the pigments being used, which would also account for deterioration.

WW II raged between 1939 - 1945
Sources claim Lady Frieda Harris completed the paintings between 1938 - 1943
Feel free to correct me and add additional comments, I'm certainly no authority on this subject.

https://www.wikiart.org/en/lady-frieda-harris

I wonder if The Warburg Institute/the University of London has any conservation/restoration plans for the original paintings.

https://warburg.sas.ac.uk/

Thinking this through objectively, the bottom line is that the Gold Box edition can only reveal the paintings as they are now, at this moment in time, NOT what they were in their original state of completion.

However, with everything being taken into account, the Gold Box edition would still be able to offer more than a glimpse at what the original paintings looked like in their first conception when they were pristine.......IMHO for what that's worth.

[Papageno]

This is a historical "Timeline" from the Winsor & Newton website:

https://www.winsornewton.com/na/discove ... s/timeline