Cult of Tarot Forum

Hi everybody!

Here's some current stats and info on our group deck.

We have 28 people signed up to make cards
The list is posted here: viewtopic.php?f=316&t=3001&p=19926#p19926
(If I missed adding your name please let me know)

We have officially 24 finished cards turned in.
There are several more that are very close to finished and several more on the way after those
All finished cards are posted here: viewtopic.php?f=315&t=3054
Again, if I have missed posting yours please let me know.

I think we won't have any trouble meeting the first goal of 32 cards.
Once we pass that, the hard cut of would be 64 cards because for printing purposes, it's 32 per sheet for this size.
I think a 64 card deck would be great.

I would like to impose now a soft deadline of September 30th. As we get to the middle or so of September we'll re-evaluate but end of September sounds like a good cut-off to me

Therefore, sign-ups are still open for anyone who would like to join this project. You can see the details and sign up here: viewtopic.php?f=316&t=2982

Now the hard part, and I would appreciate your input.

With Button Soup we did a full on kickstarter that was a bit of a nail-biter but we made it and the result was we were able to get some really high quality printing work done, nice packaging etc. And importantly, we were able to keep the costs down for purchasing a very high-quality deck with an amazing 100-page booklet.

I'm wondering about doing the same thing with this deck, or alternatively, doing a print-on-demand.
The advantage would be it's a lot easier than doing a kickstarter and committing to a print run of 500.

The disadvantages to POD as I see them are:
-Limited choice in card-stock and packaging
-Depending on choices made, the cost per deck is higher for the purchaser, especially if we want a nice box, better paper, etc. Adding a booklet will also increase the cost.
-Unable to control print quality from deck to deck (something I've been hearing a lot about lately regarding POD)
-Extremely limited distribution possibilities. Button Soup has sold, and continues to sell many copies to people outside the creator group and even outside this forum which gets our work out to the world which is wonderful to see.

Concerning quality, to go with professional printing like we did with Button Soup, we'd get the off-set printing which is far superior to POD which uses digital printing. This is why off-set printers require a minimum, usually of 1000 decks, but my printer will do 500. The quality difference is a lot. With Off-set, the colours are more vivid, details come through, basically what you submit them is what you get whereas with POD the results are often (not always) a little darker or a bit more muddied and as I mentioned before, can vary from deck to deck depending on day to day variables like how much ink is in the printer. (I'm not joking about that.)

All that said, POD may be more practical. I haven't decided.

I'm interested on your opinions and experiences. Have you bought a POD deck? Were you satisfied?

I forget - does crowdfunding take a fee if the project is not funded?

If not, I think it would make sense to try crowdfunding first, and if the goal is not met then POD instead. any "promotional material" for the crowdfunding could be used to advertise the deck itself for POD

I've always been very happy with the way colour and quality of the decks I published with MPC turned out. I wish they were not so expensive though, especially the custom tuck boxes, which are through the roof.

But postage at the moment is incredibly pricey. I sent the last Mystic Rubaiyat to the US last week and it cost me £21.23 for Signed and Tracked - pretty much essential these days. Apparently the US has been moved to World Zone 3 from WZ 2 due to fewer passenger flights, so that the PO has to use air freight to compensate.

arlecchino wrote: ↑27 Aug 2020, 14:38 I forget - does crowdfunding take a fee if the project is not funded?

No , if the campaign fails, there is no cost.

arlecchino wrote: ↑27 Aug 2020, 14:38 I forget - does crowdfunding take a fee if the project is not funded?

If not, I think it would make sense to try crowdfunding first, and if the goal is not met then POD instead. any "promotional material" for the crowdfunding could be used to advertise the deck itself for POD

I agree with this.

I also agree with what arlecchino said.

However I just crunched the numbers and the difference is massive.

Meaning that with Print on Demand you get a LOT less and pay considerably more.

It's not even close.

If we do a Kickstarter and succeed we'll have something we can be really proud of that will have a wide appeal for a long time. It's the only way to do justice to the deck.

If the kickstarter for some reason did not work out, then POD would be the only alternative, but it would be a poor replacement.

We still have to finish the deck, that's the priority, and I don't want to sidetrack anyone with these details but I think everyone is interested in what the final result of all our work could be.

I think we have to try the Kickstarter and do the best job we can on it.

I have use d GameCrafter (a US company) just to get sample decks. The colors are darker, muddier, because they printer does not do any color correction and your deck(s) just run with whatever else is running that day. This can affect the colors. I have had some success by making a special GameCrafter file, but that involve opening up each card image in Photoshop and opening ups the levels. Fine if it is all your own art, but daunting with a collaborative deck that has a wide range of artwork.

They also have noticeable "drift", which shows up if you have a border.

I vote for a Kickstarter type platform if possible, just to get the better quality print. But if we go with POD I will adjust my image files.

Pen wrote: ↑27 Aug 2020, 18:41 I've always been very happy with the way colour and quality of the decks I published with MPC turned out. I wish they were not so expensive though, especially the custom tuck boxes, which are through the roof.

If we do end up doing POD then I would likely go with MPC. I used them on my first deck, not as POD but on a small run of 100 decks and I was satisfied overall. The deck was kind of dark anyway, so the prints were a little darker than I would have liked, but it wasn't unacceptable. But I think as Paula Millet says in the above comment, you have to adjust levels for digital printing and it would be tricky for a deck like Star & Crown.

So true about the custom tuck box being crazy-expensive, and no option even for a nicer 2 piece box.

With my MPC deck I went with the plain white tuck box and was never really happy about that decision but the custom box was just, I thought, not worth that price although it really makes a difference in the presentation of the deck and it's really a minimum expectation for buyers.

I'm with everyone else about printer for button soup doing great job!:) but 500 seems hi goal for oracle deck?:)
also I would like to point at current shipping crisis that is likely to prolong shipping cost & delays especially considering it's almost holiday time & then Chinese new year so imo shipping will be back to normal next year by may hopefully?:) lol so be sure to ask for estimated shipping to US etc for each printer before launching ks!:)
so you are up to lot of thinking to make this ks work!;) I also confirm mpc did great job with my last Large deck print & was actually surprised colors were as on my screen but it seems that was so thanks to light pallete guess you would need to lighten up darker colors?!
BTW mpc also have discount for larger quantities & fulfillment option so will work for preorders sort of?:) but again shipping,,,

also my italy printer will print any size & number of decks including box & booklet/guidebook!:) https://www.instagram.com/ludocardsitaly/
they will also do shipping if you ask them but their shipping rates are not great,,,
& you can get them ship free to mailboxde & then ask them to do fullfilment like i did for my EU edt decks!:) but it may be complicated & shipping rates are still unpredictable,,,

also gamecrafter may work best for US jumbo size card & sturdy 2piece box?:) https://www.thegamecrafter.com/parts/sm ... ccessories
they also have discount for larger quantities & good shipping for US,,, & books!:)

Joan Marie wrote:

With my MPC deck I went with the plain white tuck box and was never really happy about that decision but the custom box was just, I thought, not worth that price although it really makes a difference in the presentation of the deck and it's really a minimum expectation for buyers.

They now offer a plain black or purple bag for about £2.99. I tried a black one with the latest proof and prefer it to the white tuck box - I also prefer it to the custom tuck box, which I tried too (had to bite the bullet to order one of those... ) - it'll last longer and is much better value.

I guess you're right about minimum expectation, but I can't help wondering how many buyers would choose one to order separately at cost price.