Two of the Tarot world’s leading voices, Mary K. Greer and Rachel Pollack, graciously agreed to answer some questions that I posed to them recently on the subject of these events which we all hear about, sometimes attend, and are always curious to learn more details of.
In case you aren’t familiar with them yet, Mary and Rachel have been practicing, teaching and writing about tarot for many years and have authored some of the most recognised and referenced works in all of Tarot studies.
Rachel Pollack's book, Seventy-Eight Degrees Of Wisdom, has just come out in its third edition. Mary K. Greer is the author of Tarot for Yourself, and 21 Ways to Read a Tarot Card. They have written many other books on Tarot and other topics. Both are extremely active turning up everywhere, live and online, (and sometimes live online!) sharing their knowledge and expertise with an audience of massively devoted fans, in seminars, workshops, and presentations of all kinds.
Their early work remains as vital and contemporary as it ever was. Never resting on their laurels though, these two dynamic Tarotistas continue to regularly bring us new and challenging works to build our foundations and expand our horizons.
That’s just and extremely brief intro for these two. You can find out a lot more about them just doing an online search, (some helpful links at the end of this interview) but for now I wanted to focus on a special area of interest, Tarot Conferences and Symposiums.
Later this summer, Mary K. Greer and Rachel Pollack will be hosting the Masters of Tarot Conference in Rhineback, NY. I wanted to ask them about their conference and about these events in general. What are they about? Why do people go to them? What can they expect or be surprised by?
Joan Marie: I want to thank you both so very much for participating in this Cult of Tarot Forum interview. I’d like to start by asking, how many conferences and symposiums do you normally attend per year?
MARY: Generally four to seven, Readers Studios (the Amberstone’s Tarot School in New York), the Northwest Tarot Symposiums (Portland NWTS), Rachel’s and my Masters of Tarot Conference at the Omega Institute (Rhinebeck NY). Even the pagan gathering, PantheaCon, in San Jose California has become a destination for tarot enthusiasts as there is now almost one tarot or divination workshop for every session period over the four day event.
There are conferences that only happen occasionally and ones which I only attend occasionally (the London Tarot Conference or the Northeastern Tarot Conclave with Diane Wilkes in Pennsylvania). I deeply miss Thalassa's Bay Area Tarot Symposium (San Francisco BATS) that was active for over 25 years but recently ceased.
I’ve also presented at conferences in Australia, New Zealand and Sao Paulo Brazil, plus Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles and Keswick, England. I’ve amassed a huge number of topics that I present, especially in my preferred format of hands-on workshops. I find that people learn best by doing.
Rachel: It varies. I try always to go to Readers Studio (missed only the year I had cancer), and of course the Omega workshops with Mary.
Beyond that, it depends on who invites me. I was in London this past year, and Pantheacon for the first time in several years. Next year I will go for the first time to the Northwest Tarot Symposium.
Joan Marie: What do you think that someone attending a Tarot conference gets out of it?
Rachel: First is meeting other Tarot enthusiasts. Many Tarot people are isolated where they live so it’s wonderful to discover a vibrant community. People have gone on from the Omega conferences to become lifelong friends. And some have had life-changing experiences, making decisions that reverberate through their lives.
Also, exposure to new ideas, new techniques and new approaches.
An naturally the new decks and other creative work so often available at conferences.
MARY: It's the opportunity to learn about and try out new reading methods, techniques, styles and spreads, experiences (i.e., collaging a tarot card); decks, professional support, and conceptual frameworks.
Also, meeting, reconnecting and sharing with other tarot enthusiasts including other teachers, readers, deck creators and beginners.
And it’s just plain fun. Tarot people are a friendly and welcoming lot. You can feel free to go up to any group and join in, plus you’ll find that people will reach out to you. Presenters are just another enthusiastic attendee.
And of course, exchanging and buying decks, books and other tarot-related goodies. Some conferences have a Give-Away table at which amazing things can be found. Others may have a more formal deck exchange.
(editor’s note: at the Northwest Tarot Symposium they had a “Potlach Table” where everyone was invited to leave and take something. I left my extra copy of “The Book of Thoth” –which got snatched right up - and picked up a sweet little deck for myself. The constantly changing collection of things on that table over the three days of the conference was remarkable.)
Joan Marie: What about the presenters and vendors? What benefits do they experience from participating in these events?
MARY: For me, it’s about getting to share three things I love most: tarot, teaching and learning. Plus, I get to learn from so many others. Presenters get the opportunity to polish and show-off their knowledge and materials. When vending (which I only occasionally do), I hear more particularly how my work has affected others. Besides the opportunity to make money, vendors and presenters can often connect with editors and shop-owners.
Speaking more generally, I’d say networking and friendship making is a major draw for everyone.
Rachel: Well, of course people get their ideas out, they reach an audience who might not know about them. But they also can benefit greatly from that discovery of community.
Joan Marie: People talk a lot about “The Tarot Community.” It’s a big tent with every kind of person in it you can possibly imagine (and many you can’t!) Do you see any unifying spirit or energy, besides the obvious “Tarot”, that brings this diverse community together?
MARY: Friendliness, sharing and support! Tarot is a helping-profession that more than, say astrology, focuses on intuition, craft and beauty (the art of the cards.) Plus it’s 85-90% women and also very often brings people from other countries.
We take pride in our ability to assist others. As a kind of folk-therapy it emerges from the advice perpetually given over back fences and clotheslines, and in kitchens and coffee-klatches (see anthropologist Marlene Dobkins de Rios).
Also there’s the realization that many minds are better than one. This comes up in everything from new Tarot history facts to using other divination systems. When Lenormand was just beginning to catch on we had many spontaneous gatherings during breaks where we shared ways of reading these cards. These personal connections actually formed the nucleus of early online Lenormand groups.
Rachel: It’s community itself. Tarot people often feel isolated where they live. Sometimes they have to keep a low profile. It can be joyous just to find others who love the Tarot and its traditions.
Conferences and symposiums also give people a chance to learn new ideas and practices that can jumpstart their readings. Some have gone home and launched a professional practice.
Joan Marie: One thing I learned about while attending the Northwest Tarot Symposium in Portland is the huge numbers of new people coming to tarot every day. It’s astonishing.
They are building communities through local metaphysical stores and joining online forums, looking for guidance and forming groups and seeking out the like-minded, in big cities and small towns, all over the world.
Could you discuss some of the changes you’ve observed in the last few years? Have these new voices had an influence? What are people looking for today (from forums, conferences, books, shops, etc..)? What are they contributing? How is their enthusiasm fueling creativity and knowledge of the Tarot arts?
MARY: The biggest change in tarot is in self-published and crowd-funded decks that are promoted through the internet. This means that tarot is viewed from more varied and personalized perspectives than ever before. Creators may even work interactively with followers online. For instance, an artist might post several images for a card and ask which one you like most. People buy decks they feel personally involved with.
(editor’s note: At Cult of Tarot we have a Sneak Peeks area especially for this.)
Artists and even non-artists are flocking to the field as well as deck conceptualizers who work with an artist to portray the correlations they’ve discerned in almost every conceivable area of life. It’s fun, but expensive if you try to buy them all. I’m really curious which of these decks will stand the test of time.
I also see a renewed interest in learning traditional systems of tarot as well as a homey kitchen-table approach that focuses on intuition-in-the-moment. Having cherished every tarot book I could find since the 1960s, I’ve found that new books rarely offer much that is new (except spreads) but rather repeat the old ones in the latest vernacular. This is not necessarily a bad thing!
Probably the biggest change is a result of social media and youtube that, perhaps too often, emphasize being cute and funny in an effort to get attention rather than being solidly skilled or informational. Don’t get me wrong—there’s some wonderful stuff out there, too. Whatever generates enthusiasm can be helpful in getting people to the next stage of really using and learning the cards.
Rachel: There’s been an explosion of new ideas, fresh approaches. Much of this has shown up on the internet, but often the seeds of it come from conferences and seminars. People take ideas and excitement home with them and carry it further. These ideas and practices come from the teachers, but just as much from the community that develops in the event. A number of people from Omega have formed an internet group that has been going on now for quite some years, with new members each year.
Joan Marie: Let’s talk about your upcoming event, the Masters of the Tarot Conference.
First, can you tell us about the setting for the conference, Omega.
MARY: Omega is a beautiful campus in the lush green countryside of upstate New York. There’s everything from a swimming lake to vegetable and flower gardens to a meditation center, a wellness center and sauna. The food is usually excellent (with options for most diets), and yummy snacks are available in the cafe. Classrooms are air conditioned while the sleeping accommodations have ceiling and/or window fans. I’ve called it a “New Age summer camp.”
Rachel: I know how enthusiastic Mary is about Omega (as am I!), but I will say something about its history. The land and original buildings belonged to a Jewish adult camp dating back to the 1930’s. Omega began on a small scale at a Sufi retreat about an hour’s drive. When they realized that what they were doing had great potential they bought the unused camp. So Omega can be said to have Jewish and Islamic roots! Of course, the old buildings are mostly gone, replaced by wonderful new classrooms, theaters, cabins for participants, a terrific bookstore and café, and so on. The original dining hall has been refurbished and now houses what is probably the best natural food dining service (mostly vegetarian but sometimes with chicken or fish) found anywhere.
Just walking around Omega is a joyful experience. The grounds are very well cared for without any sense of fussiness. And it’s great to see the animals—groundhogs, rabbits, etc. unafraid to be out in the middle of the day without fear of human attack.
Joan Marie: It sounds really idyllic.
Tarot Conferences are all different despite the sharing of many themes. What are some of the things that you think make MTC special?
Mary: I’d say it’s the interaction and exchanges among us as presenters.
Participants get to see the respect we have for different styles and approaches to tarot. Omega’s relaxed, vacation atmosphere plus everyone being together for the whole weekend in one space makes hanging out together natural. Presenters and participants even eat together (if desired).
There’s more of a sense of play than at other conferences. At the same time, Omega has an atmosphere that engenders self-growth and personal development, so over the years we’ve seen people make huge changes in their lives as a result of readings done in the conference and in the 5-day workshop with Rachel and me that follows.
Rachel: From the beginning we wanted a variety of approaches and expertise, as well as a variety of people. Originally we thought we should feature mostly people who already had a following, which meant mostly people who’d written books. We’ve since expanded that to people who have a certain legendary status as teachers, or people expert in related fields. Last year our group included psychic medium George Koury. We continue that this year with Terry Iacuzzo, whose whole family have been mediums. We round out the group with Benebell Wen, whose brilliant books on Tarot, and her exciting, daring, teaching style, have made her a sensation in a short time, and Michelle Tea, multi-talented author of Modern Tarot, novels, poetry, YA fantasies, and most recently a children’s book on astrology. Just having this group together will be wonderful.
Joan Marie: How has the Masters of Tarot Conference grown over the years?
Mary: I’ve been teaching at Omega for 25 years and Rachel almost that long. We added the conference only 5 years ago but it has been well-supported by Omega and continues to grow in popularity. So, the biggest change was from just Rachel and me teaching the weekend as well as the 5-day workshop, to our bringing in three additional teachers each year for the weekend.
Rachel: I should also mention that Mary and I have been teaching our joint 5-day workshop at Omega ever since 1989, which makes us one of the longest running workshops they have.
Joan Marie: You have an impressive line-up of speakers this year. Rachel’s already given us a little preview. Mary, could you tell us a bit about them and what they bring to the event? (note: click presenters name for the full conference bio)
Mary: We’ve had outstanding speakers every year! We purposefully find a mix that includes well-known and lesser known tarot teachers who provide a variety of perspectives but always seem to gel in fascinating ways during the conference.
This year we’re thrilled to present Benebell Wen, author of Holistic Tarot, who, in addition to being a corporate lawyer, has been a long-time esotericist and tarot enthusiast who is especially skilled at teaching what she has explored so deeply for herself. This past year she published her self-drawn Spirit Keeper’s Tarot (how fair is it that she’s so multi-talented?).
Terry Iacuzzo is author of Small Mediums at Large a lively and very funny tale of growing up in a family of psychics and then making her own way among the celebrities and ordinary folk of New York. Terry attended quite a few workshops with Rachel and me, amassing along the way adoring fans who got so much from working with her. At some point we realised this gem of a highly skilled and natural teacher of the psychic realm needed her own podium.
Michelle Tea is fairly new to the tarot public with her book Modern Tarot: Connecting with your Higher Self that combines tarot reading with personal spell work. Check out her long list of fiction, memoirs and media credits. Like Terry, she has also published extensively on pop culture in national magazines. I learned about Michelle when my daughter said she finally had found a tarot book that really spoke to her. Michelle is all about making a deep, transformative connection to the cards.
Joan Marie: Are there some of the specific topics you intend to explore this year?
MARY: Don’t pin us down yet. We find that if we insist too far ahead on specific topics that we miss out on the cutting-edge enthusiasms of our speakers. I will say that we emphasize experiential classes and we try to take advantage of each presenters’ unique gifts—whatever they do best. Plus we have Q&A panel sessions that focus around topics particular to our attendees.
Rachel: Each teacher picks her own subject, and we’re not sure yet just what they all will be. The one thing we know for sure—because we make a big point of it—is that every presentation will be open and meaningful to all levels, from beginner to professional, and that they be participatory, that is, involve the people doing things themselves, not just listening to the teacher. This formula has worked wonderfully for over 30 years!
Joan Marie: What are the evenings at Omega like, after the workshops are over?
Rachel: Relaxed, fun. People go to the café after dinner to play with the cards, try out spreads, share decks. We actually have a session Friday and Saturday night so some people will be heading back to their rooms, but there’s still a chance to hang out, and we always invite all participants to join us for meals in the dining hall.
MARY: Conference sessions go into the evening. 5-day workshop participants are more likely to take advantage of Omega’s ever-changing array of free concerts, dances, movies, talks, movement classes and meditation sessions (morning, noon and evening). Participants can sign up for private, paid body work of all kinds. People also hang out in the bookstore and cafe (where they can read for each other or even strangers), or go to the lake or just rest in the garden.
Joan Marie: Is there anything you’d like to add, anything else about the conference you’d like us to know?
Rachel: Just to remind people of the option to stay on for the five day intensive!
Joan Marie: Do either of you have any plans after the conference? Any travel?
MARY: Yes, I have a busy fall with tarot trips to Montreal, North Carolina, London, Italy and Israel.
Rachel: We’re both always caught up in plans. We will be teaching together again in Montreal in September, and with luck once again in China.
Wow. Like I said at the top of this interview, Mary K. Greer and Rachel Pollack continue to bring it, non-stop. I highly recommend, when you have a chance to catch one (or both!) of them, do it.
I want to thank them both so much for the time and thought they took to do this interview for us. It really is such an honor for me personally and for all of us here.
Click here for more information about the Master’s of Tarot Conference this July (2019) in beautiful Rhineback New York.
Rachel’s first, and still best-known Tarot book, Seventy-Eight Degrees Of Wisdom, has just come out in a third edition, from Red Wheel/Weiser.
She also has a book of stories and an essay, The Beatrix Gates, from PM Press. My most recent novel is The Child Eater. All are available from Amazon. The Beatrix Gates is Rachel Pollack’s 43rd book!
You can find out more at Rachel’s website.
You can see and subscribe to Mary's amazing blog . It contains articles on everything from tarot history to tips for newbies, as well as spreads, symbolism of cards, and events.
You will also see a list of some of her publications there, including the ones mentioned earlier and also, Women of the Golden Dawn: Rebels and Priestesses, also Understanding the Tarot Court, and many many more.
For a little more insight into what it's like to be at one of these event, , you can see my attempt at reporting back from the Northwest Tarot Conference in March of 2019, The Jet-Lag Chronicles: Life at The Northwest Tarot Symposium
