the wages of insincerity

[chiscotheque]

Dodalisque and i have been discussing the nature of exaggeration, artifice, and bald-faced lies for some 25 years now. To no agreed-upon conclusion, I might add, but to say no conclusions at all would be insincere since both of us have fairly set ideas regarding the issue. In this spirit - the agreed upon and the discordant - he and I propose that all who wish to weigh in on this debate via the tarot here on Plato's Cave do so with the following question (or some close facsimile):

Is politeness a form of insincerity?

How a person reads for such a question is up to them. I have drawn cards on the question already, which I will post below so that this post remains an open invitation.


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[Libra]

This is something I've been exploring within myself - in that my Mercury in Libra compounded with childhood trauma seems to lend itself towards me prioritizing a peacekeeper role in conversation more than speaking my truth. I've been recently watching for areas of self-betrayal for the sake of politeness and pondering whether being in a client-facing career is an emotionally healthy choice for me in particular. I'll definitely be exploring this in cards and if it's not too tangential, I'll share here when I do.

[chiscotheque]

Is politeness a form of insincerity?

Deck: The Rider-Waite-Smith

1st card: In what ways is politeness a form of insincerity and what is the effect?
2nd card: In what ways in politeness not a form of insincerity and what is the effect?
3rd card: What is politeness?


1st card: Death

Because politeness is a prescribed code of behaviours imposed on a person depending on their social station and given the surface aspects of a situation rather than the situation's intrinsic reality, politeness as a trend is malignant and contrary to the spiritual wellspring of life. It comes bearing a flower, but it ultimately impedes the flow. Politeness is a contrivance and a convention – it is neither organic nor necessary, but only continues to exist and have value because we infuse it with meaning. A lack of politeness does not necessitate rudeness, but conditioning and thinking make it so.

Consider an archly polite society such as Japan – the rigid code of behaviour traps people in preordained roles and stifles the human spirit. Such moribund prescriptions on a person's actions frequently trap people in abusive relationships. The repeated asphyxiation of honest responses to situations keeps a person immature, fundamentally dependent and irresponsible, and ultimately whittles away at their self-esteem. Taken to extremes, politeness kills who one really is – or the possibility of becoming who one really is – and leaves nothing but a litany of customs acted out by cadavers.


2nd card: The Lovers

The intention of politeness is generosity – a cup of kindness offered to “the other”. Being polite because one is honestly concerned to facilitate good will and good faith is an act of love. Life can be hard, arid, and frightening; the spirit of genuine politeness is an antidote and salve to these things. Approaching another in politeness is to approach them in an idealistic way - showing them one's best face and expecting the same of them, symbolized here by the angel. Politeness is a kind of assumed innocence, suggested here by the prelapsarian couple. Amongst other things, The Lovers is a card about choice, the suggestion here being that if one chooses to be polite due to truly feeling the things mentioned above rather than for pragmatic or mercenary interests, politeness can be a pleasurable emollient to intercourse rather than the greasy rancidity of extreme unction as suggested by the Death card.


3rd card: The Ace of Cups

Politeness, in its ideal state, is an offering, there to soften hard feelings and facilitate communion. Politeness is a container for emotions and things that might otherwise be dissipated and lost. Politeness, at best, is a starting point, a network of good intentions; if it is continued past a relationship's inception, the container becomes a prison. The dove which blesses the overflowing cup is the spirit which must fly free.

In answer to the initial question, politeness can be a form of insincerity – a spiritual form of insincerity – if done out of obligation, hiding behind convention, or if employed to leverage a situation simply to the leveager's advantage. Politeness can also be sincere if done sincerely, with feeling and the readiness to dispense with it once a connection has been made and eschew it entirely lest it become a barrier to charitably, probity, and true contact.


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[dodalisque]

politeness can be a pleasurable emollient to intercourse rather than the greasy rancidity of extreme unction as suggested by the Death card.

Beautiful. Reminds me of that Talking Heads album, "Sand in the Vaseline".

[dodalisque]

Question: Is politeness a form of insincerity?

I am going to politely recognise the validity of chiscotheque's approach but use the Thoth deck.

Left: In what way is politeness a form of insincerity and what is the effect?

8 of Swords - "Interference" - Fixed (8) ideas (Swords/Air) - Jupiter (idealism) in Gemini (doubts and inner conflicts).

The two plain, orderly, symmetrical central swords with downward pointing tips, representing your peaceful and civilised view of the world, are crossed and disrupted by an array of swords with peculiar designs. So politeness can be a way of ignoring other people's opinions when they differ from yours.

Each of the crossing swords has a different design, but the idealistic peacemaker, represented by the two vertical swords, dismissively bundles together every differing opinion as merely eccentric aberrations. So there is a snobbish tendency for polite people to infuriatingly disregard the passions of those they confront, and not to give serious attention to the finer points of various approaches to an issue.

Maintaining a calm exterior gives one the sensation of moral and intellectual superiority. But this can become more important than risking one's own true, deeply held, eccentric opinions in honest debate. So politeness can be a way of using apparent straightforwardness and simplicity to get one's own way - a sneaky form of manipulation. Self-love is dangerous to all who live within its shadow.

Right: In what way is politeness not a form of insincerity and what is the effect?

4 of Wands - "Completion" - Solidified (4) will (Wands/Fire) - Venus (charm and accommodation) in balanced combination with Aries (fighting spirit and a desire to conquer).

This card is very much a combination of opposites. You can be sincerely loving and respectful while insisting on the validity of your opinion.

The circle represents completion, an insight into totality, which includes opposites. Politeness is not always the same thing as misrepresenting your true feelings (lying) or avoiding conflict (cowardice), but recognises the shared humanity of all who hold differing views. As such it takes a higher spiritual view of human nature, transcending individual differences. There is a sun at the centre of the wheel, representing a positive creative force.

Centre: What is politeness?

Queen of Disks - Water of Earth

The Queen is facing away from us in a non-confrontational attitude of repose, though the enormous horns on her head announce that she has the capacity to defend herself if challenged. Politeness is not the same thing as weakness. But because we do not see her face there is the suggestion that politeness can be a strategy used to conceal our true identity. Also her passivity suggests that habitual politeness can be an excuse for a lazy withdrawal from society and an avoidance of conflict.

She is looking out over a desert-like landscape, which nevertheless contains palm trees, a river and irrigation channels. So politeness is attempting to bring nourishment to a world of meagreness and loneliness. There is also patience within politeness. She is not forcing change on the landscape or compelling others to do her bidding.

She is sitting on a pineapple throne, suggesting extravagantly fertile abundance hidden beneath a forbidding rind of convention. The globe she holds is covered by a network of overlapping circles, demonstrating that individuals in human society are intimately connected with one other. Politeness provides the fond embrace that makes life on earth within human society harmonious and secure. The ram standing on a globe behind the Queen's pineapple throne announces that politeness does not necessarily eradicate our capacity for confrontation.

[Diana]

Is politeness a form of insincerity?

Just one card.

Ace of Cups.

So according to the Tarot, definitely not. Ace of Cups has the pure water in her - the Ace of Cups represents Love and Benevolence. Patience and Forbearance. It also holds the injunction to love one's neighbour as oneself.

So politeness is not insincere - as behind it, the intention is one of love and kindness.

Please don't shoot the messenger. And don't shoot at the Ace of Cups. The water that will spill out will turn to poison.

[Libra]

This is something I've been exploring within myself - in that my Mercury in Libra compounded with childhood trauma seems to lend itself towards me prioritizing a peacekeeper role in conversation more than speaking my truth. I've been recently watching for areas of self-betrayal for the sake of politeness and pondering whether being in a client-facing career is an emotionally healthy choice for me in particular. I'll definitely be exploring this in cards and if it's not too tangential, I'll share here when I do.

I decided to explore this on a personal level, instead of broader, basically adding to the question "With my history, is politeness a form of insincerity for me?" & got Judgement as a result. A couple of pages of journaling about this can be distilled into "Politeness doesn't have to be a lie, and the truth doesn't have to be rudely expressed."

[Diana]

A couple of pages of journaling about this can be distilled into "Politeness doesn't have to be a lie, and the truth doesn't have to be rudely expressed."

Reminds me a great short poem by Emily Dickinson (I love her poetry so much).

Tell all the truth but tell it slant,
Success in circuit lies,
Too bright for our infirm delight
The truth's superb surprise;

As lightning to the children eased
With explanation kind,
The truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind.

[dodalisque]

Is politeness a form of insincerity?

Just one card.

Ace of Cups.

The water that will spill out will turn to poison.

I always wondered what those three tattered flags were around the rim of the cup. Of course...they must be jets of water spilling out from beneath the enormous, oppressive weight of the conventional pronouncements of the church, represented by the towered citadel sitting on top of the cup. Not even that awesome intellectual structure can completely choke the gushing forth of felt experience. The water welling up continually from the cup of the heart is Gnosticism, isn't it? So, in the context of the question, if "politeness" is symbolised by the repressive citadel, and the water represents "sincerity", then politeness is not insincerity but, like a valve, moderates the full-force of a destructive flood of unrestrained material welling up from the subconscious. The citadel also prevents rubbish from falling in the cup and polluting the purity of the water. Maybe.

[chiscotheque]

I always wondered what those three tattered flags were around the rim of the cup. Of course...they must be jets of water spilling out from beneath the enormous, oppressive weight of the conventional pronouncements of the church, represented by the towered citadel sitting on top of the cup. Not even that awesome intellectual structure can completely choke the gushing forth of felt experience. The water welling up continually from the cup of the heart is Gnosticism, isn't it? So, in the context of the question, if "politeness" is symbolised by the repressive citadel, and the water represents "sincerity", then politeness is not insincerity but, like a valve, moderates the full-force of a destructive flood of unrestrained material welling up from the subconscious. The citadel also prevents rubbish from falling in the cup and polluting the purity of the water. Maybe.

surely the church is clamping down the water - impeding it. this is the suit of water yet the focus seems to be on the physical brick and plater of the church, just as the emphasis here seems to be on apologies for politeness. this i don't understand, except as tendential. the church is the rubbish polluting the water, at least in the TdM card. the RWS has the wine and bread of eucharist, the baptismal font, and the holy spirit to suggest grace and liberation, just as the water flows freely. propaganda, no doubt, but at least the focus is on the water, as opposed to the TdM card where the only way to reasonably read the church is as a rude imposition - unless one believes in the church's own propaganda.

[Diana]

It is a cup or is it a castle ? It's certainly a very odd cup. No-one can drink out of that. I think we can even safely say that it is NOT a cup.

Or is it as some have proposed, a symbol of all three monotheist religions – with a church, a mosque and synagogue. Those three “tattered” flags could then have something to do with them.

And are these tattered flags feathers ? Or wings ? Do they speak in that case of the spirituality and knowledge that has been suppressed by the church, the synagogue and the mosque ? As has been touched upon in the previous posts. We all know and recognise that spirituality has little place in religion and that religion has done its utmost to hide and conceal it. Inquisitions and mass murder if they had to.

Islam too has had its share of people twisting and interpreting the words of Muhammed (PBUH) and the Qur'an. With the Hadiths and all. And all their different strands of Islam each claiming to be the True one. And the Jewish religion holds fiercely to their knowledge - only allowing the chosen ones to have some access to it. Not the women though. They can only have a little bit.

But try as they will, truth cannot be enclosed forever. The feathers/wings/tattered flags are witness to that.

Those who have eyes, let them see.

Or not?

I think the colour blue represented heavenly grace so it would make sense that the "feathers" are blue. It reminded people of the sky/heaven.

This web page seems to be correct in its interpretation of colours in the Middle Ages : http://www.medieval-life-and-times.info ... an-art.htm

[dodalisque]

apologies for politeness...a rude imposition

This whole business of covering the mouth of the cup is interesting and quite surreal. The Valet/Page of Cups throws his cloak over it. And then in the RWS the Queen of Cups leaves the lid on. They are protecting the contents of the cup from spilling or being examined, but the citadel does seem to be unsuccessfully trying to impede the flow of water. At least the foundations of the citadel are rooted in water. There's only a little bit of spillage to satisfy the thirst of the congregation.

[dodalisque]

It's certainly a very odd cup. No-one can drink out of that.

I wonder how many sides the citadel and the wide, stable base of the cup have. I'm just wondering for numerological reasons. I'm assuming the part of the base at the back that we cannot see has three sides, making a total of 6. Is there a 7th tower hidden behind the central monolith of the citadel, or is that the 7th tower, but with the artistic perspective all out of shape? It's as odd as the Wheel of Fortune? Wonky. If there are only a total of 6 towers then the structure of the citadel is assymetrical. The front side facing us would be wider at the back. Are we looking down into a central triangular courtyard? The towers with the spike on the end look like that wand held by the King of Wands. Some comment about the militarism of the church? And what is that odd spiked tongue shape coming down from the top of the central monolith. At the moment I cannot remember where this shape recurs in the deck. From the shading on the citadel, is the sun coming from the right hand side of the card? Sorry that this conversation is going on here instead of in the TdM forum. We seem to have opened up a "real can of worms".

[Diana]

In preparation for the discussion of these cups and the Courts, which seems to be the path the thread may be taking here, as one thing leads on to another, here are the TdM images for ease of reference. I've added the Ace of Cups as well.

Will be back later today to comment on dodalisque's very interesting posts.

[Diana]

I want to make the suggestion that the four court cards are holding various parts of the Ace of Cups. They are different parts of the edifice that is to be built. I was looking very closely at the four cups and comparing them to the Ace of Cups, trying to find some connections, and it may be wishful thinking, but I got this impression that this may be the case.

I've never heard this hypothesis anywhere. If it has been mentioned somewhere, it's not common knowledge.

I don't think I'd have noticed this if I'd put the Ace at the end of the row. It's the direction the Courts are walking too. Except the King. He may be waiting for the architect.

[Diana]

This whole business of covering the mouth of the cup is interesting and quite surreal. The Valet/Page of Cups throws his cloak over it. And then in the RWS the Queen of Cups leaves the lid on. They are protecting the contents of the cup from spilling or being examined, but the citadel does seem to be unsuccessfully trying to impede the flow of water. At least the foundations of the citadel are rooted in water. There's only a little bit of spillage to satisfy the thirst of the congregation.

I've also always found this covering and uncovering curious. In the TdM as you see, the cup of the Queen is also closed. (She also has a most curious thing over her head - a kind of a canopy.) It's a very uninviting sort of cup isn't it. Or citadelle. Or place of worship.

In a documentary I was watching the other day about Mary Magadelene they showed the inside of a cathedral. It may be the Vezelay cathedral where her relics are supposed to be held, and the camera stopped for a second or two on what I think is called an altar (?). It reminded me of the Ace of Cups.

So I think we're pretty much certain now that the Ace of Cups has something to with the church. Although like I said, some people have seen all three monotheistic religions represented there. It's a very sound theory too I think.

[Diana]

It's certainly a very odd cup. No-one can drink out of that.

I wonder how many sides the citadel and the wide, stable base of the cup have. I'm just wondering for numerological reasons. I'm assuming the part of the base at the back that we cannot see has three sides, making a total of 6. Is there a 7th tower hidden behind the central monolith of the citadel, or is that the 7th tower, but with the artistic perspective all out of shape? It's as odd as the Wheel of Fortune? Wonky. If there are only a total of 6 towers then the structure of the citadel is assymetrical. The front side facing us would be wider at the back. Are we looking down into a central triangular courtyard? The towers with the spike on the end look like that wand held by the King of Wands. Some comment about the militarism of the church? And what is that odd spiked tongue shape coming down from the top of the central monolith. At the moment I cannot remember where this shape recurs in the deck. From the shading on the citadel, is the sun coming from the right hand side of the card? Sorry that this conversation is going on here instead of in the TdM forum. We seem to have opened up a "real can of worms".

The shape is too odd to really know. I wouldn't bank on a 7th tower though. I think it's designed to be assymetrical. Like I said above, it may also be some kind of altar and not a real building.

That spiked tongue shape ? Beats me. I've also puzzled about it. Well, I hope we come up with some theories. I have none at present and no-one I've ever read or heard has ever mentioned it.

Yep, you have opened up a can of worms. I love cans of worms. Yummy.

Probably safer to discuss this here. Plato's Cave is maybe better for such wild imaginings. The TdM forum is a bit more sedate. In Plato's Cave, we can go a bit wild. All philosophers are a bit mad aren't they ?

[chiscotheque]

The shape is too odd to really know. I wouldn't bank on a 7th tower though. I think it's designed to be assymetrical. Like I said above, it may also be some kind of altar and not a real building.

in a way, the asymmetry could just be part of the quasi-medieval aesthetic the TdM employs generally. because, on the face of it, the church looks to have 6 sides or 8 sides, if there are walls on either side which run perpendicular to our vantage. this 8-sided shape makes the most sense, like a stop sign (literally and symbolically). it emulates the shape of the base of the cup, and arguably the "church" is trying in it's blockheaded way to emulate the roundness of the cup itself, and an octogon is as close as it gets. if there are 8 sides there should be 8 minarets, but it's all 6s and 7s (by the bye - islamic mosques never have more than 6 minarets). also, there are 5 little leaves at the midsection of the cup - every number seems to be represented here, but who's counting?

i feel almost contractually obliged to point out that water, emotions, and the suit's colour (blue) are all highly female. christ called himself the bridegroom and the church calls itself the bride of christ. if by the church we mean the individuals the church claims to represent, i'm fine with that; but if by bride of christ we mean the church itself as an institution - hell, no. even a shotgun wedding has more legitimacy. leaving aside who the lucky bride might be, i would like to extrapolate on my church as bung theory. first, i think we can agree on the obvious and egregious fact the church fears and derides the feminine - cups being feminine as pointed out, making the church as cork image on the TdM self-evident. as i have pointed out elsewhere, the church has stopped administering the wine during mass, the female aspect of eucharist which christ instructed his disciples to enact in his name. argue what you will as to why they can't carry out christ's explicit directive, but the fact remains that the church reserves the literal and figurative cup and its contents for itself (the clergy). these points suggest why the queen of cups has her cup capped. as for the page, his position is somewhat dubious in this regard. in the RWS, his mien is explicitly fishy. finally, bung-wise, the catholic church has famously throughout history appropriated the religious customs of a group of people (again, the true church) and imposed their own rites, saints, structures and strictures directly overtop them. this they did with christmas and the virgin birth and the sun-god son etc. but also quite literally by building their churches directly on top of existing holy sites. many argue that these, along with other sites occurring naturally, have lines of energy moving beneath them - ley lines. sometimes these are simply aquafers running below ground, sometimes crossing at the site on which the church is built. again, the implication for the TdM ace of cups image is self-evident.

as for the church itself, it reminds me of a byzantium edifice, generally, and the hagia sophia in istanbul specifically. the center of the thing looks like a tent - perhaps the veil that was rent?

For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. - Corinthians 5:1-5

[Pen]

This is such a fascinating discussion. Re. the cup though, I've always thought it represented a monstrance.

[Diana]

This is such a fascinating discussion. Re. the cup though, I've always thought it represented a monstrance.

Oh my ears and whiskers ! You're quite right !! Where have you been all my life ?

I see it's also called an ostensorium. Now I need to go and do some research on catholic rites. But chiscotheque and other people who were brought up in Catholocism will probably know lots about this.

Thanks for clearing up this mystery, which wasn't really one until someone (Pen) came along to explain it.

[Pen]

They crop up quite a lot in old engravings and woodcuts, which is where I first saw them when heavily into tarot research on the Tarot History Forum.

[Diana]

Pen, would you agree that the turrets are minarets ? What have people had to say about these during your research and discussions you've had with people? There are none such shapes in Christian iconography surely ?

[Pen]

Pen, would you agree that the turrets are minarets ? What have people had to say about these during your research and discussions you've had with people? There are none such shapes in Christian iconography surely ?

I'd say (cautiously) that they're not minarets (in the Islamic sense) but part of the design of fairly typical Gothic architecture - look at cathedrals, especially French ones - English too - Bristol Cathedral has some turrets that look a little like the ones on the card. The woodcuts for cards were drawn on the wood block and cut by craftsmen (and maybe women) who'd probably see such architecture on a daily basis, and since they were working on a small scale (the actual size of the finished card) they'd need to simplify their designs in order not to lose detail.

[dodalisque]

Re. the cup though, I've always thought it represented a monstrance[/url].

Problem solved. I had never heard of the term and can't believe I haven't come across it in discussions of the cards. Thanks. Now I I know what one looks like, I have to go to Wikipedia to find out a montrance actually is.

[dodalisque]

I want to make the suggestion that the four court cards are holding various parts of the Ace of Cups. They are different parts of the edifice that is to be built.

Sorry to state the obvious, but all I get from how the 4 courts are holding their cups is how precarious the cups are, balanced on the palms of the Page and Knight. In youth and adolescence the heart is presumably easily upset, and we are careless about the contents. No wonder so many spiritual journeys fall flat before we get to be Queens and Kings. The mouths of those cups are wider than for the Queen and King, which suggests perhaps a kind of spiritual dryness in the latter - less "open-hearted". The lid on the Queen's cup also carries the idea of secrecy or privacy, the wordless restraint we associate with the Papesse/High Priestess. Maybe women's hearts are mysteries even to themselves. Yet the lid looks like a breast with a nipple on top.

By the way, that sharp tongue shape I mentioned earlier coming down from the central tower is all over the minor cards in all the suits, used as a device to end columns of foliage, etc., perhaps even the severed buds in the suit of Swords It looks like the archway at the entrance to a church - called the narthex, I think - but upside-down on the Ace of Cups. The heart, the suit of Cups, is the entrance to the world of spirit, I suppose.