Cult of Tarot Forum

The Bagpipe of Mato.


On this card of the Fool we see a backpipe. An instrument many people think it is connected with the Scottish Highlands. Studies on this great woodwind instrument have proven the use of backpipes for already millenia.. Some people are agitated at least.. See the Bagpipe history nonsense archive. http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/arc ... 56540.html
In this writing i will try to connect the bagpipe of the card with the dog, Nero, the strange boots and the feathered Pan.

Some facts about backpipes


– The bagpipe is an wood-wind instrument using enclosed reeds fed from a constant reservoir of air in the form of a bag.
-The bagpipe is traditionally thought of as being linked to Persia, Persia has a long recorderd history
and was closely linked with music from the Shepherd's world.
– Originally the 'askaulé(os)- askaulos were also made of dogskin.
'You pipers who are here from Thebes, with bone pipes, blow the posterior of a dog'
– The bagpipe is familiar to all societies that look after livestock. The reason why bagpipes ended up spreading from the Middle East through Europe and even as far as China. (Oxford- Dr Frankopan)
-World wide bagpipe exchange: Backpipes were played in Persia since at least 900 AD,
In Oman and Jordan there are bagpipes which came from the British fairly recently (Dr. Urkevich)


Backpipes in Italy

Follow this link http://www.unh.edu/Archives/music/Icon/ibphs.htm for information about pictures of bagpipes in Italy in the 15th century.
Angels were often pictured with bagpipes in the Italian Christian Iconografy of the old and new testament. But also pictures are found of the normal rural life and Pan and Satyrs with bagpipes.

Information about the bagpipe According to the attached book which goes along with the Sola Busca Lo Scarabeo (Museum quality):

'The bagpipe that the fool is playing is a pastoral instrument believe to have been used in the ancient time by sileni, wild and lascivious creatures. The instrument was therefore considered to be diabolical, like all the woodwind family. This diabolical symbolism associated with wind intruments – pipe and bagpipe, in contrast to 'celestial'string instruments – shows the negative character of the card. There might also have been an association to the word 'folle'in Latin, which means 'sack' or 'bellows' so a 'folle'might be a bag of air, nothing, nonsense.'

Okay i see and feel te negative character and this bagpipe is played by a panlike creature clothed as Nero wearing shepherd's shoes..
But what to do with the dualism concerning bagpipes? In the 15th century most pictures of bagpipes are related to those sweet little angels playing together on bagpipes, flutes and violins? During the days this deck was created bagpipes played by the Zampognari must have had another certainly positive influences.


Some Italian facts concerning bagpipes

Nero played the bagpipe ; it is unknown if he was playing the backpipe when Rome was burning.(mentioned by Suetonius and Dio Chrysostom)
– Romans called it 'Tibia Utricularis' and those bagpipes were used in war to freighten the horses of the enemy.This utricularis (of sheepskin) was used by Nero who kept the back under his armpit in an attempt to please Athena.
– Backpipes were prevalent from the middle ages until into the renaissance. Italian names for the bagpipe are f.e. Pifferi, Zampogna, Bagpipe players are called Zampognari.

The Zampognari – Presepio – buolic poetry / Italian bagpipes in the Medieval age and Renaissance

During the medieval age started a practice called the PRESEPIO approaching the time of Advent. Many shepherds were requested to perform in the front of the statue of the Virgin mary or before a 'presepio'(nativity scene).

During these cold winter days the Shepherds came down from their mountains with their bagpipes made of sheepskin. Sheeps their precious cattle they are taking care of whole year. Playing the bagpipe made of the skin of the sheep must have meant a lot for them.. Playing the bagpipe meant the sheep came alive again. Which i feel as a positive energy.
The people during those days believed that these shepherds had inherited the practice of singing and playing from the Angels that sung the first Carol when Christ was born.

During the Renaissance the zampogna was associated with bucolic Poetry which represented beautifull rural landscapes like the Greek Arcadia, a sort of mythological home of Pan, the God of the Shepherds.
Pan playing the bagpipe; an leafless tree on the background
Anonymous (15th century), Pan Silvanus Florence: a picture which very looks like Mato of the Sola Busca.


Jacopo Sannazzaro wrote a bucolic poem Arcadia. This lyric poems were presented as songs accompinied by the sound of a Zampogne which according to the poet 'can give more pleasure than other instruments.'
Zampogna was considered as a very sophisticated tool although of simple origin.
(Source: mariasannino.com)

Questions arise..

Is there a connection to the dog on other fool cards? Shepherds always have dogs... and what intreges me is the use of dogskin for the oldest bagpipes.
This fool card lacks the dog from other tarots. But in a way the bagpipe points to the dog (Auskolos, the Greek Equivalent was made originally from dogskin)
And last but not least: Dogs on Fool cards often try to get skin of?

Why the book describes only the negative side of the bagpipe?
In renaissance the Zampogna music accompanied the beautifull buolic poetry describing the world of Arcadia, the mythological home of Pan. The instrument was described by Sannazzaro as 'can give more pleasure than other instruments.' Roman Vigil wrote: 'the pipe twitters sweetly'
Somehow i feel a connection with the language of the birds...
Isn't this a positive side of the bagpipe?
Why the book points to the vision from religion in an obvious religion free tarot?

Further this fool looks like Pan for me. The Headdress of the fool are feathers. But they somehow look like leaves; as the Greenman wears.

The strange boots of the Fool.

The strange boots of the fool. It must be winter on this card? (the tree without leaves / Advent?) And then this dress and naked chest and legs? Looks quit cold to me.
Zampognari originally dress in suits made of knee length trousers, long socks, a leather jacket, a mantle and a cap. Shoes they wear are usually the typical footwear of peasants and shepherds. Those shoes are known as 'cioce' which are made of long leather straps that surround the legs up to the knee and a kind of sandal that ends with a long tip rounded upwards.


Nero played the bagpipe. The dress of this fool looks for me as a Nero – Like dress?

Is this 'winning'fool partying on the feste dei folli (festival of fools 26,27,28 deccmber) playing the bagpipe?
And is it possible to 'time' this card and relate it to december?

Looking to the feathers of the fool.. Typical of the feste dei folli was the race that rewarded the one who, blondfolded, was able to hit the animal with sticks. The winner was awarded with the crown made of the plumage of the rooster and deserved the title of 'King of the rooster' or 'king of fools'.
During this festival all values celebrated for the rest of the year were reversed.

The fool is wearing a Pan like headdress, the trophee of the feste dei folli.

He is blowing on the bagpipe, an instrument Nero was playing holding it in the (unusual) same way as described Nero did. The bagpipe also reminds to the bagpipes made of dogskin(dog). His shoes and bagpipe points to the sheperds who had inherited the practice of singing and playing from the Angels.
His dress points in a way to Roman elite.. A short one for this case and only halve of the normal Roman (long) suit/dress.
Dressed quit well for the festival all (religious and social) values were reversed.

It seems that this is one of the few Fool trumps that generally get a negative meaning, Lucifall. Gnaccolini also said that the 0 (zero) in the card is in the form of an empty circle, possibly signifying the nullity of his brain. This emphasizes this arcanum as a literal Fool, an intellectual lightweight. Hurst opined that because of his shoulder-fastened cloak and bagpipe, he might very well be a Celt. Because of their reckless aggressiveness and cryptic verbiage, the latter might have been considered embodiments of folly or madness by the Ancient Romans.

The crow, being a creature of ill omen, might also have contributed to Mato's inauspicious image. Looking at the Fool listening to the crow on his left (or Sinister) side might be taken as following advice that would lead to perdition, just like the Waite Fool stepping off the cliff though we presume that the latter has taken his own independent counsel regarding that choice.

I really appreciate the Pan Silvanus image you posted, Lucifall. It does seem eerily similar to the Mato. From his bagpipe to his stance to his feathered headgear and the trailing string that looks like a tail and even the withered tree at the background, the resemblance is quite uncanny. Maybe he is an embodiment of Pan.

It's interesting to compare what or who many authors think he might be. Mato might be a diminutive for the Italian word "matto", which can be translated as "crazy". Gnaccolini seems to think he is a sinful Fool. Aside from probably being a Celt, Hurst also thinks that he might be Julius Caesar's friend, Gaius Matius. You suggested that he might possibly be a zampognari - in the Lo Scarabeo Ancient Enlightened Tarots LWB and also in Giordano Berti's booklet for the Mayer version, he is described as a lone musician. I remember di Vincenzo thinking that he is a wayfarer, a traveler of the world.

The Nero possibility that you mentioned is interesting. Do you think this has any connection to another Sola Busca card - VIII. Nerone?

This might be OT but: Finally! A deck discussion that I can sink my teeth into. I hope this develops into a formal study group, as I will definitely join. I think we have more than a few members here who love the Sola Busca?

Just a question tho. Would this thread be a catch-all for all discussions regarding the Sola Busca Mato? I can see this one easily turning into a learned discourse regarding its imagery and symbology; associated myths, legends, and historical events/personages, etc. It might seem out of place or it might even break the flow of the discussion but I'd also like to talk about the possible divinatory meanings of the cards. These might be personally formed or gleaned from various books and sites. I know that studying a card for itself is de rigeur for serious Tarot scholars, but I think that many would also want to learn its more pragmatic uses, get some ideas on how one can interpret them in a reading. However, we can create a separate thread for this if that's more appropriate.

I agree. This deck deserves a study group.
let me consider your suggestions here and please feel free to make more so we can figure out a good way to do this.

Thanks Joan Marie! Even if I'm juggling some stuff, every week I'd definitely put in the time to participate in the discussions for this deck. Lucifall started off the thread superbly, exploring interesting tangents that has a lot of points that can inspire dialog. I hope he initiates the threads for the other cards too. I also wish that other Sola Busca enthusiasts would participate because there are so many fascinating areas to explore in this enigmatic deck.

I think that in this case the traditional study group structure would still work. If I want to learn about a card in a specific deck, I'd like to have all of the discourses on that card in one place. That's just me tho - I'd abide by whatever the group agrees is most viable.

Getting back to the discussion:

I think I understand why dogskin gave way to sheepskin in bagpipes. Dogs help the shepherd guard his flock, so it would make more sense if he sacrifices one of his sheep instead of his dog in the creation of the instrument, since the latter presumably has more value.

About your writings on sheepskin bagpipes, one thing caught my attention. It's highlit in your passage here:

During these cold winter days the Shepherds came down from their mountains with their bagpipes made of sheepskin. Sheeps their precious cattle they are taking care of whole year. Playing the bagpipe made of the skin of the sheep must have meant a lot for them.. Playing the bagpipe meant the sheep came alive again. Which i feel as a positive energy. The people during those days believed that these shepherds had inherited the practice of singing and playing from the Angels that sung the first Carol when Christ was born.

I remember how Jesus Christ is sometimes called the Agnus Dei, the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world. Just like the pagan solar gods who are reborn during the winter solstice, so does He come alive again every Yule, when Christians around the world celebrate His birth. This might explain these shepherds playing their bagpipes and singing Christmas carols during winter.

I appreciate your idea that the bagpipe being made of dogskin may have some connection to the dogs shown in a majority of Tarot decks. I do think the canine symbolism of the Fool card might not be very important tho. Other significant decks use different animals/familiars in their imagery, though the dog does seem to be prevalent in older traditions like the Marseille. The Golden Dawn Fool features a wolf, the Thoth shows a tiger, variants of the Etteilla has a leopard gracing the card, while many other decks feature a cat.

I think that the Sola Busca Mato centers on the crow/raven as the card's familiar, which can be chilling or inspired, depending on what it symbolizes to you. Tho generally regarded as a harbinger of bad tidings, it may hold positive meanings too. Di Vincenzo wrote that in alchemism, the bird has a different connotation, since its black color can represent the advent of an inner quest, while its flight can mean the first separation of spirit from matter. So yes, like you I don't think Mato has to be exclusively negative.

Lastly, I appreciate how Mato is indisputably the Fool. There's some debate as to whether the other Sola Busca majors correspond to the standard trumps in the exact same order that they were presented. In Gnaccolini's Segreto essay, she wrote that:

For the other triumphs there are certain identifications (the Stars : IIII. MARIO (figs. 1.3.1.127); . . . the Moon : XII. COAL (fig. 1.18, 1.126); . . . the Traitor : XIIII. BOCHO (figs. 1.93, 1.133); the Sun : XVI OLIVO (figs. 1.76); . . . probable identifications (theBagatto [123]: I. PANFILIO (fig. 1.5); the Temperance : V. CATVLO with the groma (Figs. 1.10); . . .

It seems like we have an interesting road ahead.

Amoroso wrote: ↑14 Sep 2019, 13:04 It seems that this is one of the few Fool trumps that generally get a negative meaning, Lucifall. Gnaccolini also said that the 0 (zero) in the card is in the form of an empty circle, possibly signifying the nullity of his brain. This emphasizes this arcanum as a literal Fool, an intellectual lightweight. Hurst opined that because of his shoulder-fastened cloak and bagpipe, he might very well be a Celt. Because of their reckless aggressiveness and cryptic verbiage, the latter might have been considered embodiments of folly or madness by the Ancient Romans.

Thanks a lot for your feedback! For me as Dutchie it is sometimes difficult to write and/or google in English.. You helped me a lot with 'shoulder-fastenened cloak' for some nice hours googling

I have read that one two of the nullity of the brain (in the book) This view might be strengthened by the description of Andrea Vitali concerning the feathered headdress. (This is not mentioned in the book attached but on her website)
The feathers on the head should represents the very element in which the fool is lacking, that is speed and intellect). In the book she mentions the negative aspects of the backpipe, the crow and of course the reference to psalm 52.. All very negative.
I really have to get used to the fact this fool is pictured so dark..

Concerning the nullity, the 0.. What triggers me also is the point before and after the 0 which looks very like an letter O to me.. (Which continues in the majors.. sometimes one point; sometimes 2..)

Amoroso wrote: ↑14 Sep 2019, 13:04The crow, being a creature of ill omen, might also have contributed to Mato's inauspicious image. Looking at the Fool listening to the crow on his left (or Sinister) side might be taken as following advice that would lead to perdition, just like the Waite Fool stepping off the cliff though we presume that the latter has taken his own independent counsel regarding that choice.

Yes i agree with that but there is a slightly difference. Waite's fool will be upholded by Angels. Waite writes 'The edge which opens on the depth has no terror; it is as if angels were waiting to uphold him'
No terror... and saviers are on the way.. I am wondering very much what the Crow is telling this Pan-like fool... Will the Crow assist/ help the Fool?
In Roman times Crows were used for divination, The Crow is also mentioned as a starsign..

Amoroso wrote: ↑14 Sep 2019, 13:04 I love this image of Silvanus Pan. (From the same time as the Sola Busca was created) and see a lot of similarity also.

Do you have idea's which tree this could be? Should it be possible this is a fig tree? (There seem to be a connection crow-fig tree)


[quote=Amoroso post_id=11104 time=1568466284 user_id=332I It's interesting to compare what or who many authors think he might be. Mato might be a diminutive for the Italian word "matto", which can be translated as "crazy". Gnaccolini seems to think he is a sinful Fool. Aside from probably being a Celt, Hurst also thinks that he might be Julius Caesar's friend, Gaius Matius. You suggested that he might possibly be a zampognari - in the Lo Scarabeo Ancient Enlightened Tarots LWB and also in Giordano Berti's booklet for the Mayer version, he is described as a lone musician. I remember di Vincenzo thinking that he is a wayfarer, a traveler of the world.
The Nero possibility that you mentioned is interesting. Do you think this has any connection to another Sola Busca card - VIII. Nerone?

I was not aware of the point of view of Hurst. Very interesting as all the other trumps are connected with persons. Mato being a Celt? Also a great insight! Do you know a website where i can find more information about this?

There is also a visible connection..Nero - Mato (And Carbone..)
On Mato we see a rope with 3 knots (a masonic ritual?) ending in a tale (Pan again!); On Nerone a rope with 4 balls. The one of Nerone (VIII) is described by Andrea Vitali as a tintinnabula. bells children would make by stringing together walnuts or hazelnuts and tying them on a wooden stick. The card's icongraphy seems to suggest such as an association, since these simple toys were placed in children's tombs along with other small objects that would accompany them into the afterlife,
On the stick we see a kind of pin (bowling) or is it possible to associate this with a diabolo (Which might be pointing to the diabolic nature Andres Vitali describes on Mato?)
On Carbone (XII)we see a same kind of rope. With 3 balls and one diabolo? (the 3th one).
I have no idea of any meaning of this possible connection.

Amoroso wrote: ↑15 Sep 2019, 01:11 Getting back to the discussion:

I think I understand why dogskin gave way to sheepskin in bagpipes. Dogs help the shepherd guard his flock, so it would make more sense if he sacrifices one of his sheep instead of his dog in the creation of the instrument, since the latter presumably has more value.

Dogs must be more valuable. A flock means lambs enough when every runs well.. so a sacrifice of a sheep must be less painfull in many ways.
The dog guards the flock but also is an companion.. Shepherds are like hermits when they are high in the mountains and a dog must be a very welcome companion/friend.

I remember how Jesus Christ is sometimes called the Agnus Dei, the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world. Just like the pagan solar gods who are reborn during the winter solstice, so does He come alive again every Yule, when Christians around the world celebrate His birth. This might explain these shepherds playing their bagpipes and singing Christmas carols during winter.

I can only totally agree. I wrote some years ago an article about Sun Gods: https://tallsay.com/page/4294968982/de ... nnereligie
Jesus is in my opinion a Sun God and the last Sun God introduced to humanity. (Sorry Bagwan )
He came to us in human form.
Did this happened to make the mass aware of the astrological importance of all religion and mythology?
The birth and death of Jesus represent the wintersolstice and the movement of the Equinoxes. During the wintersolstice our sun is in one line with 3 stars of the constellation Orion and the star Sirius. When this is happening in the sky it seems the Sun is dying as the Sun is very low on the horizon.
On the 25th the Sun reborns.
Around the Spring-equinox Jesus dies and arises again. It is spring when everything rebirths again.

Roman also had their pagan Sun Gods and the Myths: Sol Invictus or Deus Sol Invictus. Sun Gods were important for the Romans. Traces of Sol invictus can be found in early Christian Iconografy where Christ is pictured with a Sun-Crown in the chariot of Apollon- Helios. The Romans had their own Mithras cult. Even in my country the Netherlands they found traces of an Roman Mithras temple. (on that same place (Elst, The neth) was built a church later as happened in very many places.. Around the 4th - 5th cent. the cult was forbidden by the Romans.

The Christmas dream can be blown away as even Santa Claus is a personification of the Sun God. The story of Santa one can experience as an astronomical allegory with a psychedelic sauce.. The story of Santa is based on Sjaman rituals getting paddo's , yeah the ones we see in christmas trees. The red ones with the white dots. These were consumed during the rebirth of the Sun on the 25th of december. (Mongolian tradition)

I think that the Sola Busca Mato centers on the crow/raven as the card's familiar, which can be chilling or inspired, depending on what it symbolizes to you. Tho generally regarded as a harbinger of bad tidings, it may hold positive meanings too. Di Vincenzo wrote that in alchemism, the bird has a different connotation, since its black color can represent the advent of an inner quest, while its flight can mean the first separation of spirit from matter. So yes, like you I don't think Mato has to be exclusively negative.

The crow symbolism is certainly a challenge to dig in.
Crows are so special.
My dad had a crow when he was young. Those are really special animals. The crow flew with my father when he was biking to school and waited until class was over to accompany him back home. (Very dog- like)

Those birds really are mysterious.. I live down town in the middle of the center. There is a big tree near my appartment. Every evening (same time when you look to the Sun) they have a big gathering. In fact all crows of the town are gathering around in trees in town.
Then on exactly the same moment all crows fly of the trees for the real big gatherring on the church in the middle of town (Grote Kerk Haarlem, St Bavo) A daily spectacle.. The crows are talking in the trees, really big discussions are going on overthere.. What is this crow telling Mato who seems to understand the language of this bird?

Lastly, I appreciate how Mato is indisputably the Fool. There's some debate as to whether the other Sola Busca majors correspond to the standard trumps in the exact same order that they were presented. In Gnaccolini's Segreto essay, she wrote that:

For the other triumphs there are certain identifications (the Stars : IIII. MARIO (figs. 1.3.1.127); . . . the Moon : XII. COAL (fig. 1.18, 1.126); . . . the Traitor : XIIII. BOCHO (figs. 1.93, 1.133); the Sun : XVI OLIVO (figs. 1.76); . . . probable identifications (theBagatto [123]: I. PANFILIO (fig. 1.5); the Temperance : V. CATVLO with the groma (Figs. 1.10); . . . It seems like we have an interesting road ahead.

Mato is indisputably the fool. Nearly cristal clear.
What i don't understand from this presentation is mentioning the Sola Busca majors correspond to the standard trumps in the exact same order that they were presented. This is followed by the matching of The Stars with IIII; the Moon with Coal? XVII and IIII and XVIII and XII?

This road of discoveries is certainly interesting

Joan Marie wrote: ↑14 Sep 2019, 16:58 I agree. This deck deserves a study group.
let me consider your suggestions here and please feel free to make more so we can figure out a good way to do this.

This will be great a study group for the Sola Busca!

I agree everyting from Mato on the same thread so everything from the card is together.

I may have missed this point in the huge amount of information above, but I am wondering what KIND of bagpipe he is playing. There seem to be so many types. And am wondering if knowing exactly what it is and who used this type could provide a hint or clue of some kind for I don't know what. But I think it's interesting to explore all details. (If this was already mentioned somewhere, I will hang my head in shame and repent ten times. ) I haven't yet taken a lot of time to research pictures, but there seem to be an awful lot of sorts.

Marigold wrote: ↑15 Sep 2019, 16:50 I may have missed this point in the huge amount of information above, but I am wondering what KIND of bagpipe he is playing. There seem to be so many types. And am wondering if knowing exactly what it is and who used this type could provide a hint or clue of some kind for I don't know what. But I think it's interesting to explore all details. (If this was already mentioned somewhere, I will hang my head in shame and repent ten times. ) I haven't yet taken a lot of time to research pictures, but there seem to be an awful lot of sorts.

There are really many bagpipes.. Never thought there were so many.

The bagpipe of Mato looks very much like The ancient Tibia Utricularis of the Romans. (Nero should have played on such one The 'bag' made of sheepskin - In Greek more ancient ones were made of dogskin)

Lucifall wrote: ↑15 Sep 2019, 07:40
I have read that one two of the nullity of the brain (in the book) This view might be strengthened by the description of Andrea Vitali concerning the feathered headdress. (This is not mentioned in the book attached but on her website)
The feathers on the head should represents the very element in which the fool is lacking, that is speed and intellect).

Said feathers I believe which have trickled down to more modern tales such as Yankee Doodle Dandy with his feather in his cap.

On Mato we see a rope with 3 knots (a masonic ritual?)

This I highly doubt. On Aeclectic we often discussed any possible masonic representations in the Tarot. Jean-Michel David who is a Freemason of some degree was able to enlighten us much on this subject and was dismissive of it.

Lucifall, your comments about pagan Sun Gods reminded me of a quote from The Game of Saturn by Mark Adams. It discusses what might a main thesis of the book regarding the very soul and maybe even raison d'etre of the deck:

The heavily encrypted cosmology, theurgical and ritual practices that constitute the Sola-Busca tarocchi form a veritable grimoire of elite magical praxis. At the core of the deck’s heretical cosmology stands the demiurge in his most archaic and violent form, that of the hypercosmic Ammon-Saturn, the lord of time and the cycles of creation and destruction… The inevitable consequence of this chain of logic was that ‘true religion’ involved the worship of the hypercosmic demiurge in his most archaic – and thus purest – guise: as the sun behind the sun, the hypercosmic Saturn – whether known as Mithras Helios, Sol Invictus, Phanes, Lucifer, or Ammon.

I have to get me a copy of the book! To be fair though, there are some Tarotists who dismiss the book as spurious pseudo-history, but I'd like to decide that for myself after reading it.

Veering a bit OT, have you heard of the Sol Invictus: The God Tarot? It celebrates the divine masculine in its different aspects and guises, whether as gods, heroes, or historic figures. The equivalent of the Hanged Man trump there is The Dying and Resurrecting God-Men - about the pagan solar gods who are reborn in the depths of winter and who die (usually) amidst glorious spring. The Sun card there is represented by - who else? - Mithras. I think it might be up your alley. I have it and it is one of my absolute favorites in my collection.

Btw, to anyone who wants to join the Sola Busca discussions, just dive in. You don't have to comment on any of the thread's previously-presented ideas. If you have any insights you wish to share on any aspect of the card, we'd love to hear them.

Regarding divinatory meanings for Mato, there are quite a diverse set from different sources.

One resource posits that it can mean Foolishness in its upright aspect, and Insanity when it's reversed. Well!

Berti suggests that it may mean Dreams, Extravagance, or Revelations, while an older LoS LWB writes that it may portend the birth of sublime ideas.

Di Vincenzo states that it may represent a beginning based on strange assumptions or a discovery that would lead to unexpected consequences. It may also indicate eccentricity, impulsiveness, or madness.

This is quite a compelling card, this Mato.

Could the rope with those little round things be a prayer rope ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_rope

The depiction on Wiki is a modern kind of prayer rope. According to what I read, these were originally just pieces of rope. Later they were designed to hold around one's wrist.

Amoroso wrote: ↑16 Sep 2019, 11:15 Btw, to anyone who wants to join the Sola Busca discussions, just dive in. You don't have to comment on any of the thread's previously-presented ideas. If you have any insights you wish to share on any aspect of the card, we'd love to hear them.

The only thing I would strongly suggest is if you open a discussion about a different card, start a new thread with that card's name in the subject line (see the forum rules at the top of the page)

I realise there will be some overlap as we compare and contrast but for the most part it will serve as a good organisational principle for the study group ongoing.

And as Amoroso says, jump in anywhere. There is plenty about this deck to talk about.

This I highly doubt. On Aeclectic we often discussed any possible masonic representations in the Tarot. Jean-Michel David who is a Freemason of some degree was able to enlighten us much on this subject and was dismissive of it.

The Rope and knot is as far as i know a part of Masonic ritual in the temple. Tarot in my opinion certainly has masonic elements (but that makes tarot not mason, agree with that) but those same elements you find back in other symbols around the world.. F.e the pillars on The High Priestess (RWS); the same you find in the Masonic Temple; and i have seen this element also in many places around in Asia.. In Hindutemples, Buddhist temples..

Amoroso wrote: ↑16 Sep 2019, 10:56I have to get me a copy of the book! To be fair though, there are some Tarotists who dismiss the book as spurious pseudo-history, but I'd like to decide that for myself after reading it.
Veering a bit OT, have you heard of the Sol Invictus: The God Tarot? It celebrates the divine masculine in its different aspects and guises, whether as gods, heroes, or historic figures. The equivalent of the Hanged Man trump there is The Dying and Resurrecting God-Men - about the pagan solar gods who are reborn in the depths of winter and who die (usually) amidst glorious spring. The Sun card there is represented by - who else? - Mithras. I think it might be up your alley. I have it and it is one of my absolute favorites in my collection.

The same book is number one on my wishlist. Always better to decide for yourself ; Sometimes you only need one alinea to be fulfilled.

Lol... and now i have another tarotset on the wishlist, too This is certainly one i am interested in.
Intriging, the hanged man as the dying and resurrecting God-Men. It is quit clear Christ was an old fashioned way of copy-dog (plagiat)


Staring at the fool: i am wondering.. Is there a snake coiling around his head? As a kind of Diadem under the leavelike feathers?
I really think there is a lot of the Mithras cult in SB. Nero was an initiate of the cult.
Corvus (Raven, crow) is the first degree of the initiate of the Mithras cult.
When you make a lay out of 3 rows of 7, the fool on top in the middle
in row 1 you will find torches in symmetry diagonal under Mato.
The torchbearers: One holding straight with flames (VI- Sesto- Six, the number of the Sun ) ; on the other side one darker downwards with leaves (a blooming wand-fire) II - Posthumio (After death-dark)
The Fallen crown on XVIII (Lentulo) has 7 rays and is placed on a Phyrgian cap. Mithras...

Marigold wrote: ↑16 Sep 2019, 11:23 Could the rope with those little round things be a prayer rope ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_rope

The depiction on Wiki is a modern kind of prayer rope. According to what I read, these were originally just pieces of rope. Later they were designed to hold around one's wrist.

It looks a bit similar but this one has beats no knots.

The Franciscaner monks use rope with three knots as a belt; but those are different knots.
meaning: 'The rope worn as a belt around the waist symbolises being girded with Christ and is tied in the three characteristic Franciscan knots that signify the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience taken upon becoming a member of the community. Each knot has five coils to remind us of the five wounds of Christ.'

I thinks the ones on Mato are 8 shaped knots but have my doubt on that..

I appreciate Lucifall's early-on detailed summary of the iconography of the Sola Busca Fool. Great research! There are positives and negatives woven into the imagery, with shepherds associated with the bagpipe (positive) and the crow in the face of the Fool (negative), with association of shepherds in Arcadia, with association with Mithraic Saturn. Is it not possible that the mix of dark and light is intended? That this is Christian-pagan? Could the bagpipe be musical harmony in contrast/opposition to the ominous, Saturnine crow? Why all of it either diabolic or bucolic? At any rate, I wonder what the zero meant to the ancient Romans and to the Renaissance Italians. It seems to me that the zero may mean more than an empty brain as one interpreter maintains. No doubt the zero is a significant element in the symbolic milieu. Someone in this study group (that needs some rebirthing) might explore the zero in the context of this imagery. Let's keep on looking and considering.

Parzival wrote: ↑01 May 2020, 09:49 At any rate, I wonder what the zero meant to the ancient Romans and to the Renaissance Italians. It seems to me that the zero may mean more than an empty brain as one interpreter maintains. No doubt the zero is a significant element in the symbolic milieu. Someone in this study group (that needs some rebirthing) might explore the zero in the context of this imagery. Let's keep on looking and considering.

That is a really interesting question since Zero does not appear in Roman numerals at all.
I just did a super-quick peek into it and found that Zero was not used in Europe at all until the 13th century where it was used almost entirely by mathematicians until the 15th century in the creation of theories and scientific instruments.
Merchants continued to use Roman numerals. It wasn't until the 16th century that Zero was used commonly in europe.

Sola Busca is from the late 15th century.

If you look at the history of Zero (it was around for centuries before it came to europe) it had a lot of divine/scientific uses. In ancient egypt for example, the symbol for it meant "beautiful" and was the basis for the geometry of the pyramids.

I am officially out of my depth now having failed geometry in high school and having no idea what I just wrote means. But I think we can see that there is connection to a certain wisdom that seems a bit ironically tied to a card representing a "Fool."

Yes, the Romans did not use the zero. Then why is it in a Roman historical Tarot? All I know is that they used the word "nulla" instead of zero. Maybe more to shed light on this? By the way, I noticed that the zero on the Sola Busca Fool has two little dots around it at its lower curve, one left, one right. Not sure what that is about. And just to mention that the bagpipe is distinctly fingered, and its upper tip seems taken out of the fool's mouth as the crow suddenly appears, its beak in his face. The contrast between crow and bagpipe is striking, maybe meaningful: spirit opposed matter, eternity opposed time, harmony opposed dissonance, air opposed earth, lightness opposed heaviness. This could be Neoplatonic, alchemical, Christian-pagan, a keynote to the card, possibly the whole deck. Or maybe I am off the track of the solely "black magic" basis.

My take on this card is that the blowing instrument (bagpipe) represents the spine, comparable to the use of the trumpet of the Judgement card. Blowing on it is a metaphor for the flowing kundalini energy.

A pointer for me is the pipe sticking out above the head (at the crown chakra) of the Sola Busca Fool.
Or am I mistaken and is it something else??

This is alchemy symbolism (as is the crow)
An example from alchemy:
The owl blowing the trumpet on this emblem represents Wisdom/Sophia/the kundalini

It seems to me you have intuited something about the bagpipe. It requires air (obviously) and hands/fingers to make sound. So it is "flowing energy'" of the soul, energy that expresses outwards. Maybe kundalini to modern spirituality but not to the original creators/artists. As I mentioned before, the bagpipe being played is in dramatic contrast to the crow : both make sound, but very different sound!

In Greek myth the same symbolism is used, also implying the kundalini. For instance satyrs often blow a double pipe: the ida and pingala nadi = duality.
The holes in the blowing strument (spine) refer to the chakra's, that are "played".