Cult of Tarot Forum

I watched this video,, the author has been studying lenormand for years so I suppose she helped stuart on his second edition of the blue bird and some of her reasoning behind it a lot of sense. !

HOLMES wrote: ↑04 Feb 2019, 00:37 I watched this video,, the author has been studying lenormand for years so I suppose she helped stuart on his second edition of the blue bird and some of her reasoning behind it a lot of sense. !

This is interesting. Her strict adherence to the intended imagery is appealing for purists. And even for those of us who like to colour outside the lines a bit, her comments are helpful in keeping card designers from losing the plot.

I do have one comment about this deck and that is the little poems that appear on each card. They take up a lot of space and to her point that the cards need to be readable in a Grand Tableau, I would think they don't help much. Also, the poems are kind of, let's say dull, and even if you do read them, you won't read them twice. I just think eliminating those would have improved the deck in the direction she was aiming for. Who knows, maybe she did suggest it and they didn't take that suggestion.

She never even refers to the poems as she describes these cards, it's as if she's "over them" and doesn't even see them anymore.

Outside of that though, she seems very passionate about this deck and that's nice to see. I hope she got compensated for her contributions to the new addition.

unrelated but still a point..

I was all ready to love Doreen virtuae tarots,, I really was,, but the writing on the deck blocked my intuition. more then that I was afraid that client in a live reading may say but it says that on the card.. ,,

regarding the blue bird as I just used it last night , I did pick up on card to read the poem,, my mind said, I am not getting that here, so I just fogo the poem.. I think they are good though if you get stuck as I remember using them t that affect a couple of weeks ago.

I think stuart wrote the poems,, (could be wrong ) but there was an earlier deck I think with poems on it..

It's better than it was. The clutter on the images had to go. (Warning: nerdism and geekery to follow! I'm one of those purists. So if you can't stand that kind of thing, you might want to skip this. )

Someone who used the first edition a lot would have been habituated to looking for a Ring card where a hand took up most of the picture, for instance. But if you alternate decks to save wear and tear (or just to have something fresh to look at), imagine you're doing a client reading with a GT on the table. Your client asks about a contract, so you have to be able to locate the Ring in that big smear of cards, and do it in a split second. It doesn't do to be sitting there going "Uhhhhh..."

There is no need for two Man cards and two Woman cards. It's a nice gesture, but same sex relationships existed long before they started putting extra significators in the deck in the 2010's. There are other cards that can represent people - the Rider for an active, sporty-type guy, the Bear for a bear type, etc. I always take the extras out, I have a box of them. Look at the cards that connect your significator to other people cards, they'll generally tell you if it's a romantic relationship. Besides, the Man and Woman cards aren't automatically partner cards. Just someone who is important to the sitter at the time of the reading. So if you take the Man out of the deck to read for a lesbian, you might be taking out her father, brother, boss...

One Star would have been perfectly acceptable. It's about aspirations ("wish on a star"), clarity ("guiding star"), science (astronomy, etc.), esoteric subjects (astrology, etc.), and night (Moon is evening.) I'm not sure where she got "networking", etc. - things that involve the public are indicated by the Park/Garden. "A lot" of something is Fish. "Networking" might be one of Rana's meanings (Donnaleigh was a student of Rana's) or just some idiosyncratic interpretation she cooked up. (And you can use your deck any way you like. But if you are trying to learn this particular style of Lenormand, for clarity's sake I'd suggest going straight to Rana and skipping the middle(wo)man.)

A lot of the classic old decks depict a single Star: http://gameofhopelenormand.bigcartel.com/ Some also have poems. But the poems tend to be in German, or sometimes, French. Personally, I prefer playing card insets, but poems don't bother me as long as they aren't wonky ones in English. Some of them are quite good and worth translating. The Destroyed Dondorf at that site has bits from the Carta Mundi verses written on them, and they're good.

I remember a lot of the poems in the first edition being a mess. Andy remarked that Kaplan really should have known better, lol.

But getting rid of the owl on the Coffin, the mountain on the Clouds, etc. is a big improvement. I don't think it matters which side of the Clouds is dark, but most of the old decks show the dark side on the right. The fork on the Roads card is vital.

thanks for your reply,, I read it twice..
(I just blue bird for a reading just now, so nice to see your view on it ).

myself I dont' mind extra cards as long as it is people. now if they were adding a king card, some other card that has nothing to do wit the traditional lenormand that is where I draw the line..

like my tarot,,i prefer 78 cards, not more.or less.funny ,, I hate that for tarot,, but don't an extra lady or he card.

I mostly agree with you on extra cards in Tarot. That extra Man and Woman card box of mine has a few Happy Squirrels and whatnot.
There are a few exceptions. Baba does extra cards really well, they put a lot of thought into everything.

Just for the record, these are the cards I use that can stand in for people, other than Man and Woman:

The Rider: Same sex male partner, rival, young guy, sporty, lover, new boyfriend.

The Dog - Best friend, platonic friend (male, unless attended by the Moon and female cards.)

The Child - a child.

The Snake - Often an older woman, may wear glasses. The sitter knows her but generally isn't close to her. Occasionally it’s the other woman, but usually not. This is also the partner card for a same sex female couple.

The Bouquet/Flowers - Female friend, sister, etc. Nice.

The Bear - Some read the Bear as female, I read it as male. Might be bald. Bear-like: heavyset, body hair, may be jealous and possessive. (Malkiel once called it "Boring old Bear" )

Birds can be a couple, sometimes.

The attending cards will tell you if these are talking about a person or not. Often, the Rider is just news and the Snake is just a detour.

Just want to add that occasionally, the Clouds, Lilies, and Bouquet are sometimes read as people. The logic behind this is supposedly because they're face cards, but you really don't see people using the Roads, Fish, Stork or House. The Jacks, other than the Child card, aren't read as people.

I don't know the reasons for this. I suspect it's a vestigal remnant of some old Alemannic playing card reading rule.

But in any case, there are a lot of people in the deck.

Well house can often mean a person/people who live with you, so that's kinda the same thing. I've definitely seen Andy do that. But, as far as the jacks in general, aren't the significators in playing cards only kings or queens unless it's a child? Since the child can count for any child, then, you don't need the other three jacks as people in Lenormand.

I've also seen tower as a grandparent/elderly person. I would read it that way if the context presented itself.

Charlie Brown wrote: ↑02 May 2019, 01:04 Well house can often mean a person/people who live with you, so that's kinda the same thing.

I've definitely seen Andy do that.

Yes, it's a catch-all for your personal life, so it includes people who live with you. It's just not about the King of Hearts.

But, as far as the jacks in general, aren't the significators in playing cards only kings or queens unless it's a child? Since the child can count for any child, then, you don't need the other three jacks as people in Lenormand.

With playing cards I tend to think of the Jacks as young people/children with various temperaments (or coloring, or whatever...people have different ideas on this.) Like the Kings and Queens, only younger. A lot like Tarot Pages. Alemannic methods may be different.
Lenormand certainly is.

I've also seen tower as a grandparent/elderly person. I would read it that way if the context presented itself.

Yes, I think I've seen Andy do that, too. (I use Lilies and Snake.) And sometimes Birds/Owls can be an older couple.