Cult of Tarot Forum

Great! Looking forward to this! My issue is getting better about explicitly asking for what I need.

Hi Jaq. This is just to let you know I am looking forward to reading your cards and seeing what they have to tell you about being more open about stating your needs. I will sit down to it sometime during the weekend. I was wondering if you had a particular TdM deck that you would like me to read with. I've built up a little collection over the years and may have the one you use most or one you'd like to see. After years of loyalty to Rider-Waite-based decks, when I came across the forum run by Enrique Enriquez on Aeclectic I more or less switched allegiances to the TdM. I usually use the Flornoy Dodal. The images in that deck give me almost the same feeling as the art on totem poles, but there's a rough and ready working-class vibe about it too that I like. Good for straight talking. We're doing the 6 card pyramid reading, right?

dodalisque wrote: ↑18 Jan 2019, 05:41 Hi Jaq. This is just to let you know I am looking forward to reading your cards and seeing what they have to tell you about being more open about stating your needs. I will sit down to it sometime during the weekend. I was wondering if you had a particular TdM deck that you would like me to read with. I've built up a little collection over the years and may have the one you use most or one you'd like to see. After years of loyalty to Rider-Waite-based decks, when I came across the forum run by Enrique Enriquez on Aeclectic I more or less switched allegiances to the TdM. I usually use the Flornoy Dodal. The images in that deck give me almost the same feeling as the art on totem poles, but there's a rough and ready working-class vibe about it too that I like. Good for straight talking. We're doing the 6 card pyramid reading, right?

Thanks! The Flornoy Dodal is fine with me.

Question: My issue is to do with getting better about explicitly asking for what I need.

Pyramid spread:
1 - Issue
2 + 3 - Factors playing out in it
4 + 5 + 6 - How the issue is dealt with

1 + 5 - Hidden factor

1 - Wheel of Fortune
2 - Temperance
3 - Pope
4 - Hanged Man
5 - Empress
6 - Moon

The Wheel of Fortune turns out to be an accurate representation of the issue at hand. The TdM Wheel is static and destined to remain so until someone assertively cranks the handle. Like many cards in the TdM there is a subversive element hidden in plain sight in the images. We normally expect the Wheel of Fortune to represent a world in which "nothing is constant but change", but the image on the card actually suggests the opposite is true: that stasis, especially in the political sphere, is the natural state towards which everything tends. Nothing changes unless we make it happen. Even God needed to say The Word to get things rolling.

Perhaps also there is a subtle feeling of guilt that prevents us from demanding more for ourselves. That is, when we crank ourselves up to become the king at the top of the wheel, are we condemning others to subservience or defeat? Do we explain away our timidity about expressing our needs as selflessness? In my Dodal TdM the Wheel seems to have been carved so incompetently that an impossible object has been created that looks incredibly fragile. The whole structure looks as though it could collapse at any second. Maybe we feel that our life situation is so precarious that we would rather accept very little - a low place on the Wheel -than bring the whole structure tumbling down. Do we explain away our reluctance as prudence?

Temperance is looking to the left, and the Pope is looking to the right - neither is looking us in the face, or each other, avoiding eye contact. So maybe there is a fear of confrontation. Temperance is the master of compromise: one foot on land, one toe in the water. Rather than drink from the jars, she is holding on to what she has, determined not to spill a drop. This delicate operation requires her to be too careful about making large gestures. The position of the two tiny monks in front of the gigantic Pope is one of subservience and perhaps indicates too much respect for figures of authority.

The Justice card is the key to resolving this issue. She makes direct eye contact with us, and though remaining firmly seated and stable - certainly not hysterically demanding - her sword is not held perfectly upright in a position of passive indecision but is actually leaning very slightly to the right. That is, she is not waving the sword about aggressively but reminding the person she is talking to that she has the capacity to take action and defend her own interests. She is also nudging up the scale on the left with her knee. So it's OK to be a little unfair and unreasonable when you need to ensure that justice is done and you get what you need. To hell with balance and fairness!

If we adopt the same attitude as Justice, then the starburst hairstyle of the helpless Hanged Man gets flipped the right way up on the Moon card. The Hanged Man is hedged in by two dead trees but the Moon soars clear of the two towers. The dogs can yap all they want and the crab can wave its claws but they can't affect the Moon, whose face looks like Justice and remains indomitable. You need to adopt an attitude of firmness and a lofty disregard for objections.

The secret connection between cards 1 and 5, The Wheel and Justice, is the leaning sword held by the little king on top of the Wheel, which anticipates Justice's leaning sword. You fear the king's little sword but you have a larger weapon of your own. And it's also sharp, which enables you to be more exact and explicit about your needs rather than making vague complaints about things in general.

Please let me know if you see a completely different story in the cards. There are many other details I could talk about but I find readings with the TdM are more effective if I can find just one or two visual elements that really stand out. I'm quite new to reading with the TdM and I'm still feeling my way. The pip cards are a total mystery to me. I could always attach meanings to them but I'd prefer to construct readings from purely visual clues. Very different from reading with the Rider-Waite and other modern decks.

Thank you for an exquisite reading!

dodalisque wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 23:37
The Wheel of Fortune turns out to be an accurate representation of the issue at hand. The TdM Wheel is static and destined to remain so until someone assertively cranks the handle. Like many cards in the TdM there is a subversive element hidden in plain sight in the images. We normally expect the Wheel of Fortune to represent a world in which "nothing is constant but change", but the image on the card actually suggests the opposite is true: that stasis, especially in the political sphere, is the natural state towards which everything tends. Nothing changes unless we make it happen. Even God needed to say The Word to get things rolling.

What an interesting point of view! Yup, nothing changes if nothing changes.

Perhaps also there is a subtle feeling of guilt that prevents us from demanding more for ourselves.

That's almost hilarious. My two personal development goals are getting better at asking for what I need, and making some progress in extricating myself from my addiction to guilt and an overdeveloped sense of responsibilities. How did I not see that the two are related???

The whole structure looks as though it could collapse at any second. Maybe we feel that our life situation is so precarious that we would rather accept very little - a low place on the Wheel -than bring the whole structure tumbling down. Do we explain away our reluctance as prudence?

Maybe not my whole life situation - things are going really well for me right now - but in those areas where I have problems asking for what I need, yes, I can now sense that there is a fear that I might bring some structure down.

Temperance is looking to the left, and the Pope is looking to the right - neither is looking us in the face, or each other, avoiding eye contact. So maybe there is a fear of confrontation.

In those areas, yes.

Temperance is the master of compromise: one foot on land, one toe in the water. Rather than drink from the jars, she is holding on to what she has, determined not to spill a drop. This delicate operation requires her to be too careful about making large gestures.

Yes, I'm often concerned with being careful and diplomatic in human relations.

The position of the two tiny monks in front of the gigantic Pope is one of subservience and perhaps indicates too much respect for figures of authority.

That's interesting. Nobody who knows me would, in their wildest dreams, describe me as someone who has too much respect for figures of authority. BUT. There is a part of me who assigns people imagined authority in certain situations. Also what is wrapped up in this is having grown up in post-Nazi Germany and as a result, having a deep, deep mistrust of authority that can be warped into a strange type of respect.

The Justice card is the key to resolving this issue. She makes direct eye contact with us, and though remaining firmly seated and stable - certainly not hysterically demanding - her sword is not held perfectly upright in a position of passive indecision but is actually leaning very slightly to the right. That is, she is not waving the sword about aggressively but reminding the person she is talking to that she has the capacity to take action and defend her own interests. She is also nudging up the scale on the left with her knee.

There is a part of me that is totally capable of acting like that. I am wondering now what it would take for me to act like that everywhere in my life. And wondering whether NOT acting like that makes me inauthentic in a way …

So it's OK to be a little unfair and unreasonable when you need to ensure that justice is done and you get what you need. To hell with balance and fairness!

Haha, how I cringe when I hear that! I am probably one of the least bitchy women you’ve ever met and have often thought that learning to be a bit more bitchy might not be bad for me. But when I am confronted with it like you just did, I cringe

…they can't affect the Moon, whose face looks like Justice and remains indomitable. You need to adopt an attitude of firmness and a lofty disregard for objections.

Interesting. To me, the Moon is not just lofty but its mystic, intuitive aspect is an important part of who I am, and which I don’t show often enough.

You fear the king's little sword but you have a larger weapon of your own.

”The king’s little sword” – I’m not sure I know exactly what that means but it speaks to me. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the authority I am afraid of is mostly imagined.

And it's also sharp, which enables you to be more exact and explicit about your needs rather than making vague complaints about things in general.

I rarely make vague complaints, I’m usually very specific. However, when it comes to stating what I need I can get all mumbly.

As I said, a great reading. I consider myself very lucky to have had you as a reader.

Please let me know if anything I said sparked more ideas or thoughts.

Jaq, many thanks for your warm and generous response to the reading. I'm wildly guessing from the cards that you're a parent. From my own experience I know that every moment taken for oneself can seem like a terribly selfish indulgence, stolen from your partner or children. The rugrats on the Wheel? Who cares if you're tired: meals need to be made. Who cares if you're sad: the kids need to get to soccer practise. You can get out of touch with your own feelings: they become irrelevant. Maybe I'm way off base, but the shield on the Empress's knee looks like a child to me. Her hands are full. The eagle that wants to soar towards the moon is trapped on the shield, the symbol of protection. But forgive me if this is all rubbish. Looking forward to talking to you again and doing some readings together. I'm hoping to learn to read with the pips at some point. I have experimented a little with a 42 card deck - 22 Majors + 16 courts + 4 Aces - but I usually only ever do 3 card readings with the Majors only.

dodalisque wrote: ↑22 Jan 2019, 23:17 Jaq, many thanks for your warm and generous response to the reading. I'm wildly guessing from the cards that you're a parent. From my own experience I know that every moment taken for oneself can seem like a terribly selfish indulgence, stolen from your partner or children. The rugrats on the Wheel? Who cares if you're tired: meals need to be made. Who cares if you're sad: the kids need to get to soccer practise. You can get out of touch with your own feelings: they become irrelevant. Maybe I'm way off base, but the shield on the Empress's knee looks like a child to me. Her hands are full. The eagle that wants to soar towards the moon is trapped on the shield, the symbol of protection. But forgive me if this is all rubbish. Looking forward to talking to you again and doing some readings together. I'm hoping to learn to read with the pips at some point. I have experimented a little with a 42 card deck - 22 Majors + 16 courts + 4 Aces - but I usually only ever do 3 card readings with the Majors only.

While I don't have rugrats anymore, I do have three adult children and three grandchildren, and they do take up a good portion of my time. I certainly very often subordinate my other interests and needs to my family's. Not that |I'm the martyr type mother, but there is that constant struggle, e.g. do I do X for my daughter, knowing that it's not absolutely necessary but it's a nice thing to do and I love her, knowing that it'll cost me a day's time that I can't work on my own pursuits? Do I say, ok, I've done X so many times for you, can you please do Y for me? So you certainly picked up on an important aspect of this.

Yes, I hope to do more readings with you. Let me know in a PM if you want to do an exchange.

I would certainly like to do an exchange but there not many people in the TdM reading circle right now so we are bound to bump into each other again very soon. I don't have any urgent questions on my mind at the moment but I will have a think and PM you if something interesting occurs to me.

But here's a silly thing. I just realised that I got myself all mixed up in that reading. Whether it's just a symptom of aging or an ingenious strategy of my unconscious, I don't know. For card 5 I pulled The Empress (III) but when I laid out the cards to actually do your reading next day I put down Justice (VIII) by mistake. Then yesterday I talked about the Empress. Rather confusing.

Side-by-side the two cards are very similar of course. In fact I've never noticed before how similar the scale on the right on Justice is to that odd light blue arm-rest (?) on the Empress' throne, just above her knee on the right. The three jagged horizontal spikes to the right of that are even stranger. Is the Emperor on his hands and knees behind the throne wearing a crown? But maybe we should talk about that another time.

Anyway, I wonder if the slight differences between the Empress and Justice might not be the key to subtle inner changes you need to make to become more assertive. I wonder if any insights would surface if you did a two card reading with The Empress and Justice, or even did a 3 card reading about the difference between the two. Personally I find it impossible to read for myself and would run a mile if someone asked me to do this, but if you feel inspired I would love to hear what you have to say.

For card 5 I pulled The Empress (III) but when I laid out the cards to actually do your reading next day I put down Justice (VIII) by mistake. Then yesterday I talked about the Empress. Rather confusing.

Side-by-side the two cards are very similar of course.

a Freudian senior moment, Dodalisque? as you say, the 2 cards are quite similar.