Cult of Tarot Forum

I'm posting this in the "Beginners" area, but I think this is a skill sharpening exercise as much as it is a learning one.

I got it from a book I'm reading, Lon Milo DuQuette's Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot. although this exercise could be done with almost any deck.

DuQuette describes how each trump card, (major arcana), is a world unto itself. And each trump card rules over each the 56-cards of the minor arcana.

When a trump card is next to a minor, it exudes an influence over that card which you can learn to recognise and interpret in readings.

Crowley gave this example of how the 3 of disks (Work) can be read when it lays next to:

• The High Priestess or Lovers cards : The establishment of an oracle like that of delphi

• The Hierophant: it might point to the construction of a cathedral

• The Tower: the massing of a standing army

You see how he looks at what each individual trump card might want to "work" on.

Okay, Crowley tended a bit toward drama. We don't run into many Cathedral building projects or much standing army organising, but you could easily bring these concepts into something relevant for your reading.
For example, someone is feeling spiritually low, the Hierophant and 3 of disks might be saying the person should set up a little alter or create some kind of sacred space for themselves to re-charge.

Or someone has a project that is becoming too big and you draw the Tower and 3 of disks. Maybe it's time to build a team to tackle it.

If you want to practice this, you could take all the Majors out of a deck, then select one Minor to pair each major with, one-by-one and write down your answers. You will get a feeling for this kind of combining while learning more about each card.

Just for fun, you could try pairing the 3 of disks with one or more of the following cards and in a reply to this thread, share what you got.




Or use any cards you like. These are just to make it easy to try it out here.
Maybe we could turn this exercise into a kind of "workshop" thread, and do it together somehow.

But for now, I'd encourage you all (especially beginners) to have a go at some "Pairing and Sharing" and see what we turns up. In any case it's good practice with the cards and could be a very helpful skill to have in readings on down the road.

1. use every trick in the book
2. switch on the light
3. build a solid foundation

I do something similar to this, in that I find the Major Arcana that I feel "rules" over groupings - but, related to the numbers of the card. So The Chariot rules the 7s - but to so does The Tower, as 16 reduces to 7!

I think expanding this to see how any Major would rule over a minor is a cool activity, and will do this when I have my cards near me!

This isn't all that dissimilar from card pairing practices in TdM, although that tradition doesn't tend to glorify majors when they appear in a full-deck context. However, Major-minor pairs are definitely a thing too. One difference I notice has to do with attendance, by which I mean what card is the modifier and what card is being modified. In normal TdM major-minor pairings, it's the minor that would modify the major, helping to focus and pare down the major's broad swath of possible implications through the lens of the minor. In the Crowley examples, it seems more that the major is modifying the minor, like might come across in a full-deck TdM reading of large lines or tableau. This reminds me, that large lines and counting were what the Golden Dawn trafficked in, if I'm not mistaken, so this makes total sense.

For those who aren't quite following, the reason I say that the major is modifying the three is because the 3 of Coins/Disks/Pentacles has a base meaning rooted in material growth and return on investment, often expressing itself in terms of the establishment or completion of some concrete thing. In the 3D + Hierophant example, That core material meaning is modified by V's religiosity to equal a cathedral. If the cards were Hierophant + 3D, then some quality of the hierophant's would be the subject of the deliniation. So, V+3D = something like business regulations (law modified by 3 of Disks) or a promotion at work (authority + financial growth). Of course, context is everything.

With that in mind,

• 3D + Magician = The emerging mastery of a skill in the Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours sense.
• 3D + Star = Wishful thinking and and a sort of naive idealism, possibly philanthropy (as distinct from charity)
• 3D + Emperor = This is a tough one for me because I find the Emperor to be even more contextual than most of the other majors. For me, the 4 of the Emperor and the 3 of the Disks don't sit well together. That whatever the 3 is establishing is being a bit stymied by overly conservative management. Perhaps these cards can represent the selling of an asset. Also, what does someone who aspires to be a trophy wife call the husband she hopes to reel in. This might be that dude. Barring more context, I think I'm just going to second Stronglove on this one.

ah this is fun! here’s my take on the majors modifying the three of disks/work card
1. an unorthodox approach produces unexpected results/profit
2. new avenues for growth/success opening up
3. stagnation due to bureaucratic procedures

yes, you’re absolutely right, charlie brown, that emperor doesn’t sit well with that three of disks.....

1. Hmm...magician still confuses me. Resourceful creation, consulting an expert, using the internet to find peers.......building a website??? with others. Some technological works? Or online food subscription service that's totally not scammy
2. Creation of a non profit or resource center for the community, with others of the same goal but different expertise helps to make it stronger and well rounded. Or, organizing a block party.
3. Government task force or federally funded construction project....authoritarian power structure in what is being created...

This is really interesting and fun! Makes me want the Thoth deck even more now. I might try to do that with my deck.

Kind of reminds me of how I imagine Lenormand to be.

Man, there's always something fun and exciting to learn with tarot!

I like your idea of Emperor as a government project of some sort although, as a group of people, I'm not sure I go along with the task force.

Are you familiar with the Tinker's Damn tarot? it's a very well thought out deck with a heavy Thoth influence. You'll notice that his 3 of Earth features a constructed building. You may be on to something there.

Ooooh. Yeah, that's making me think of city planning. With the emperor being 4, that makes sense, with the house and theme of construction and management. Maybe like a building project, architectural design, zoning, etc. It's also making me think of the checks and balances thing with the legislative, executive, judicial branches. So maybe navigating that in building projects too. Or just navigating legalities in a very real way, when trying to create something. Maybe even starting a business.

I used task force without really understanding the term haha, I guess it has militaristic connotations. Though I think technically it still works, it's not the most practical, unless you were doing a reading for an activist or politician of some sort, hehe.

These responses are all so great.

I realise these connections are made without context, but I think it's easy to see what great practice this is. Maybe because there is no pressure of context, a real sitter or real question to answer, that you can just sort of have fun with it and loosen up some.

It might even be a good warm-up exercise which is something I've never thought of before, but now that I do, it feels like it's not a half-bad idea.

Maybe we can try another exercise? Like a forum game sort of thing. Not sure what order to go in if we did, or if a set number participate each round and there's a way to cycle through them evenly or something. Not like a competitive game or anything, just so folks get a chance to try their hand at a set. /awkward-flailing

there was a facebook group i was in where someone drew 2 random cards every week from one deck and we all could post how we read the interaction between the cards using only one sentence. it was interesting, great fun and sometimes hilarious! and it was all about how the one card could influence the other and shape its meaning, and vice versa. using reversals as well.
this post brought it all back to me, can we do something like that here?

I know that group or else that's going on now elsewhere. The problem, from my curmudgeonly perspective is that, unlike in this thread, there's no discipline or thought just people vomiting their stream of consciousness short stories.

I'll tell you what, I'll post a pairing either today or tomorrow in the fun and games section. We can try to start it off the right way and maybe it will be good like this thread.

Charlie Brown wrote: ↑14 Apr 2019, 16:02 I know that group or else that's going on now elsewhere. The problem, from my curmudgeonly perspective is that, unlike in this thread, there's no discipline or thought just people vomiting their stream of consciousness short stories.

I'll tell you what, I'll post a pairing either today or tomorrow in the fun and games section. We can try to start it off the right way and maybe it will be good like this thread.

I may not technically be as curmudgeonly as you, but I really do agree that I'd like to keep some sense to this. I want it to be an actual learning tool. That's why I originally posted in the "Beginners" area.

I think if you take it to the "games" section, it becomes that, a game.

Unhelpful Tarot on tumblr does random pairings that I absolutely love, and I personally think even though they are usually silly, they do a great job of showing how the cards affect each other. It may not be good enough or traditional enough or disciplined or whatever but I like it!

http://unhelpfultarot.tumblr.com

Libra wrote: ↑14 Apr 2019, 19:33 Unhelpful Tarot on tumblr does random pairings that I absolutely love, and I personally think even though they are usually silly, they do a great job of showing how the cards affect each other. It may not be good enough or traditional enough or disciplined or whatever but I like it!

http://unhelpfultarot.tumblr.com

thank you so much for this reply and this link! i like it too! and i don’t agree with your negative description of ‘vomiting stream of consciousness stories’, charlie brown! why does everything have to be so serious and thoroughly researched? why can’t we learn something while having fun? i can understand how in a facebook group this kind of excercise might get watered down or lose its purpose (one of the reasons i left facebook and joined this community btw) but i strongly suspect (and hope) this will not happen here, since we have you (and joan marie) to show us the error of our ways.....

stronglove wrote: ↑15 Apr 2019, 06:34

Libra wrote: ↑14 Apr 2019, 19:33 It may not be good enough or traditional enough or disciplined or whatever but I like it!

thank you so much for this reply and this link!

I think I have come up with a good compromise.

Give me a little time to set it up. I hope to have it ready later today.

I just did my monday My Celestial Week draw and the card I got seemed to do with this issue so I would like to direct you to my entry for today.

You can see it here.

Libra wrote: ↑14 Apr 2019, 19:33 Unhelpful Tarot on tumblr does random pairings that I absolutely love, and I personally think even though they are usually silly, they do a great job of showing how the cards affect each other. It may not be good enough or traditional enough or disciplined or whatever but I like it!

http://unhelpfultarot.tumblr.com

I must say that I did find it pretty entertaining.

stronglove wrote: ↑15 Apr 2019, 06:34 why does everything have to be so serious and thoroughly researched? why can’t we learn something while having fun?

Fun should only be had with oracle decks. To do otherwise might lead to Bolshevism.

Charlie Brown wrote: ↑15 Apr 2019, 14:51 Fun should only be had with oracle decks. To do otherwise might lead to Bolshevism.

yes, i agree, they should be stopped at all costs.....

Joan Marie wrote: ↑10 Apr 2019, 17:04

When a trump card is next to a minor, it exudes an influence over that card which you can learn to recognise and interpret in readings.

Crowley gave this example of how the 3 of disks (Work) can be read when it lays next to:


3 of disks.jpg

• The High Priestess or Lovers cards : The establishment of an oracle like that of delphi

• The Hierophant: it might point to the construction of a cathedral

• The Tower: the massing of a standing army

You see how he looks at what each individual trump card might want to "work" on.

Okay, Crowley tended a bit toward drama. We don't run into many Cathedral building projects or much standing army organising, but you could easily bring these concepts into something relevant for your reading.
For example, someone is feeling spiritually low, the Hierophant and 3 of disks might be saying the person should set up a little alter or create some kind of sacred space for themselves to re-charge.

Or someone has a project that is becoming too big and you draw the Tower and 3 of disks. Maybe it's time to build a team to tackle it.

If you want to practice this, you could take all the Majors out of a deck, then select one Minor to pair each major with, one-by-one and write down your answers. You will get a feeling for this kind of combining while learning more about each card.

Just for fun, you could try pairing the 3 of disks with one or more of the following cards and in a reply to this thread, share what you got.



magus.jpgstar.jpgemperor.jpg


But for now, I'd encourage you all (especially beginners) to have a go at some "Pairing and Sharing" and see what we turns up. In any case it's good practice with the cards and could be a very helpful skill to have in readings on down the road.

I like your term “pairing and sharing.” Lenormand has great pairing practices and I have found it fun to apply TdM techniques to Lenormand and vice versa. One Lennie pairing I came up with was Whip+Cross=Addiction Recovery. Whip can represent addictions and the cross can represent spirituality. Twelve step programs for addiction are spiritual in nature so it made sense to me. Several folks responded that it was a repetitive problem. Addiction, by nature is a repetitive problem but I wasn’t using repetition as the meaning for Whip in that instance.

I like how you refer to the pairing of a major and minor as, in TdM, all things are equal. I think a lot of fun practice can result from this. Empress+ ace of wands-pregnancy...etc

BreathingSince72 wrote: ↑23 Apr 2019, 00:02 I like your term “pairing and sharing.” Lenormand has great pairing practices and I have found it fun to apply TdM techniques to Lenormand and vice versa. One Lennie pairing I came up with was Whip+Cross=Addiction Recovery. Whip can represent addictions and the cross can represent spirituality. Twelve step programs for addiction are spiritual in nature so it made sense to me. Several folks responded that it was a repetitive problem. Addiction, by nature is a repetitive problem but I wasn’t using repetition as the meaning for Whip in that instance.

I think that you're skipping a step in Lenormand pairing. I'm presuming that you're making the whip/addiction connection because the whip can sometimes refer to repetitive actions. That makes sense, but to get from repetitive action to addiction probably itself needs a second card. I actually think whip+cross equals addiction makes a lot of sense since cross as a weight or burden is a much more primary meaning of the card than spirituality. To get addiction recovery, I'd think that you would need a good ending to add on, like the sun or paths+tree.


OTOH, what's to the left of the cross is often read as something that is fading away, so—if there was enough external context—I could see "repetitive behaviors fading away" being translated as addiction recovery, especially in a smaller layout where there aren't as many opportunities for combinations.

Charlie Brown wrote: ↑23 Apr 2019, 00:47

I think that you're skipping a step in Lenormand pairing. I'm presuming that you're making the whip/addiction connection because the whip can sometimes refer to repetitive actions. That makes sense, but to get from repetitive action to addiction probably itself needs a second card. I actually think whip+cross equals addiction makes a lot of sense since cross as a weight or burden is a much more primary meaning of the card than spirituality. To get addiction recovery, I'd think that you would need a good ending to add on, like the sun or paths+tree.


OTOH, what's to the left of the cross is often read as something that is fading away, so—if there was enough external context—I could see "repetitive behaviors fading away" being translated as addiction recovery, especially in a smaller layout where there aren't as many opportunities for combinations.

I have a couple of sets of keywords. In my own personal opinion, I think the whip or rod would represent discipline, punishment, or even abuse. One of my lists said addiction so I went with it.

I don’t get how people associate the whip or the rod with repetition. I think I would rather stick with traditional meanings and CM’s resource was solid in this regard. Most of the cards, in my opinion, have a pretty obvious meaning. Clover is luck. Woman is woman. Dog is loyalty or a friend.

A better definition for the pairing of Whip and Criss, based on the menaings that I think are more traditional then might be a punishment that is difficult to bear? Something along those lines?