LA FORCE XI - its weirdness and some questions

[Diana]

And I think you'll find that gambling is a widespread human vice, not confined either to a decadent aristocracy or to the plebeians.

Haha. True, but the plebians don't get to have the fancy gilded ones to play with. I doubt they would even want them. I know I wouldn't. The two worlds do not meet.

[Diana]

But to get back to our seriousness (although a bit of punk Oi always seems to recharge my batteries so I'm ready and roaring to go now).

I had never heard of an analemma. And I think the plot thickens here. Thanks fire cat pickles (you have a very funny screen name) for this new addition to the mystery of the Tarot of Marseilles.

Now Ptolomy wrote an astronomical treatise about it. So it's ancient knowledge.

I spent a long time once looking for a hat that would resemble this one. There were dozens and dozens of different types of hats (they really liked wearing hats - I was amazed at what I found). I found nothing that even came close to the hat in question. Of course, this doesn't mean it didn't exist, just that I didn't find it.

What bothers me about thinking that it's referring to a lemiscate is that not only does one find it on La Force, but also on other cards. Le Bateleur is one. Why not, you may well say, just as I did, especially when I once found a very tenuous link between these two characters due purely to their similar hats, which pleased me in spite of it seeming far fetched. I even had a little aha moment. There is lots of mythology I believe hidden in the TdM. I posted about it on CoT once, and I'll summarise it here :

Sekhmet was the goddess who had the head of a Lioness. So there is maybe a link between La Force XI and Sekhmet. Lion/lioness and Power/Force. Sekhmet's husband was Ptah - a creator of things and a maker of things, and a patron of craftsmen. The Bateleur has a kind of work table in front of him.
¨
But it seems to me that both the Cavalier de Batons and the Valet de Deniers are also wearing one. Maybe the Valet's of Deniers is not really in the shape of a leminscate, but maybe yes, but it seems that the Cavalier de Baton's is one. If there is some meaning behind the shape of this hat, why are they wearing one too :

But Force's hat is the strangest. It is the flattest and it has teeth. Those teeth are odd. Hats don't have teeth. Unless she's the prequel to Crococile Dundee.

[Diana]

Now, yesterday when I was observing some cards, I realised that the Ace of Batons of the Camoin tarot deck has the same teeth-like thingy that is on the hat of Strength.

I wonder why. Camoin added quite a few cryptic references in his deck according to his beliefs and experience of the tarot, like eggs for example. I think I'll write to him via his website and hope for an answer. He won't remember me but we once had lunch together the two of us when I followed one of his courses. This was soon after his deck came out. An interesting and unusual man. And his reading method worked with an accuracy that astounded me.

I'm more and more convinced that they are the teeth of the lion. She's removing them. There are six top teeth left. And there are six "teeth" on the Ace of Baton teeth thingy. And she has six toes. The lion looks mightily uncomfortable. Not a sort of Happy Lion.

[_R_]

This particularity on the Camoin-Jodorowsky As de Bâtons comes from the Dodal, as can be seen in the image below (from this interview of J.-C. Flornoy by E. Enriquez.
http://www.tarot-history.com/Enrique-En ... 0-eng.html


Looking at the Noblet, we can see that the "teeth" is in fact a stylised leaf:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/90/ec ... 038463.jpg
[the image seems to be too large to be displayed properly.]

As to Camoin and his deck, we now know that it is a sort of syncretic creation, with a little of his own fantasy thrown in. Incidentally, his first book was recently released, on his reading method, and will be followed by his "theories" on the origins of the Tarot, so presumably that will shed some light on his iconographic choices.

[Diana]

Thanks for the input, _R_. You always turn up when needed.

Yes, Camoin's deck is full of fantasy. I think Camoin not only believes in his creation but believes that he believes in it. All the Egyptian origin for instance. In spite of all this, I'd still be curious to know what prompted him to retain this stylised leaf and if he thinks it has a connection to La Force. It is curious. And I'm sure he made lots of connections that make sense to him at least. I don't use his deck. I was willing to accept all sorts of weird additions, egg included (we discussed the egg during our lunch together), but when I saw that they had added a door to the Maison Dieu, this was a step too far for me. The door kind of removes the whole point of the card.

But his reading method as I mentioned did make me sit up. Probably with my mouth open a few times.

He's a very unusual man. I had to laugh when he told me, when I asked why he hadn't published a book yet, that he had had an editor lined up, but then he realised that the guy was a meat eater and he didn't want a meat eating editor to publish his book. He's full of surprises like this.

[_R_]

but when I saw that they had added a door to the Maison Dieu, this was a step too far for me. The door kind of removes the whole point of the card.

This door has a definite precedent, in fact a number of the historical decks featured on Camoin's own site show this, e.g. here:

[Diana]

Oh, I see. Well that does give more credence to Camoin's depiction. It's silly though. It's much better without the door. I'm with the guys who decided to remove it.