Cult of Tarot Forum

Posted: **18 Aug 2018, 06:04**

I would enjoy some healthy discourse regarding our opinions of the nature of tarot. Is this an esoteric tool or a simple in-plain-view tool? I have heard some say, especially in the tradition of the Marseilles, that the image is the secret. I agree with this statement. I have heard some say that the tarot is an ancient Egyptian book which I think is hogwash although I sure loved this romanticized version when I was younger. I do feel like we can lay the tarot structure like a transparency, over any wisdom teaching in order to learn it. The tarot lends itself so well to all of these things.

I am new (though thoroughly obsessed) to the Marseilles and much of what I have read says that there is nothing esoteric in the Marseilles. I agree that it started as a game. I have also read that it goes against the tradition to read anything deeply spiritual into the cards...that they were designed for games and later used for simple cartomancy and fortune telling. I like open knowledge and I feel like most keepers of secret sacred knowledge use that so-called secret stuff to nurse egos. But I do still appreciate looking at the major arcana as the story of our unique personal growth.

I feel like one of the most wonderful ways we can use the tarot is to locate ourselves in our inner landscape. Sure cartomancy and fortunetelling are great fun but getting an invite to enjoy the adventure of now is profound. I enjoy the tarot as a tool for psychological change and spiritual empowerment and I feel that the everyday stuff is (potentially) extremely spiritual; caring for kids, going to work...chopping wood and carrying water.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Posted: **18 Aug 2018, 14:18**

thanks for starting this exchange of thoughts. i am fascinated by the different views on tarot, its history, its development and its use.
at the moment i am reading robert place’s ‘the tarot, magic, alchemy, hermeticism and neoplatonism’, which decisively embeds the tarot within the development of different philosophical and esoteric thoughts and theories. and i love his book so much, i am thinking about writing to him about the possibility of an index, because he provides so much relevant information. heck, i even thought about creating an index for him myself, i am so fascinated by his work......
anyway, this firmly places me within the group of ‘tarot as an esoteric tool’ supporters, though i am also beginning to explore it as a cartomantic tool.
funny thing is, while i see tarot, and especially the TdM, as an esoteric tool, when i use it in readings i always tend to go for the story that the images tell me, using my (still very minimal) knowledge of the esoteric symbolism mainly to add deeper layers to that story....

Posted: **22 Aug 2018, 09:27**

This is a good question. Some card readers are firmly on the more down-to-earth side. The image means something in that moment of reading but nothing more.

Personally, I think that there are layers of symbolism in the cards. We forget sometimes that the society which made them was pre-literate. Knowledge and esoteric ideas were communicated by symbols - pre-reformation churches were highly decorated with stories and symbols which were meant to instruct and inspire the laity. The allegorical images in the Trumps would have conveyed certain ideas - the level of depth would naturally have been different between different people just like now.
The sacred and profane were not as separated as now.

Posted: **22 Aug 2018, 15:45**

Just MHO.

Simply stated, tarot, and all the other cards used for oracles and divination, are all subject to the will of the diviner.

As to tarot, you can read them any way that you like since there is no agreed-upon method that applies across the board as, say, Lenormand. You can read them while attempting to follow others' interpretation, e.g., Etteilla, Levi, Wirth, Waite, Crowley, Elias, Ben Dov, and the list goes on.

You can create your own method -- and method you must have if you want to have predictable results -- or you can use one of those teachers to provide a structure that makes sense to you as a jumping off point toward your own interpretation. You get to choose the method that most appeals to your own sensibilities. There is no right or wrong choice; none is necessarily more valid than another, although some may argue that point.

Ultimately your own consciousness is the guiding influence on how you interpret the cards. Already, since you are interested in reading the tarot, or other cards, you trust that there is a force that causes the cards to fall in an order that is relevant to the question that you ask. Whatever that force is, is governed by the conduit of your own internal force with your own vision of what the cards say.

There are adherents to every method that you can name and minutia of those methods can provide rich fodder for discussion.

Pick one. Or two.

Posted: **22 Aug 2018, 16:11**

I generally stick with element/suit and number symbolism when using the Tarot de Marseille (although if Joseph Maxwell's work is any indicator, that can get pretty deep all by itself) and don't go into astrological or qabalistic correspondences. But that's just my choice, nothing says you can't or shouldn't. What the TdM doesn't do is provide much visual reinforcement for your experiments in that direction. I quickly tired of trying to dissect all the "minute and tedious" details in the decorative embellishments and just retreated back to my foundation.

Posted: **13 Dec 2018, 22:16**

Same here, really. I think reading TdM is quite liberating in that sense, particularly with the minors/pips. Whereas with the imagery on the RWS, cards like the 3 or 10 of Swords are rather in your face.

Posted: **09 Feb 2019, 01:01**

I have found that I have a fondness for interpreting the colors in some cases. I don't even know how I stumbled upon this but it can truly add depth to a reading.

Posted: **10 Feb 2019, 19:44**

In my opinion, anything goes. Personally, I cannot connect much with esoteric symbolism - I have a great aversion against "secret knowledge." I want to be able to tell a sitter, this is why I said this, and it should be at least somewhat obvious to the sitter, or really easy to explain ("see how there's so much blue in three of the cards and none in the fourth?") I may bring in esoteric interpretations but when I do, I'll preface it with something like "some people think that the white rose means ..." or "some people associate Tarot with the Kabbalah, and in the Kabbalah, this sign means ..." Of course it depends on who the sitter is. E.g. with the Kabbalah, the sitter could know way more than I do (not difficult!), may have a vague sense that the Kabbalah exists, or may have never heard the word before. I try to adjust accordingly.

Posted: **12 Mar 2019, 21:24**

Personally I like to be down to earth. I read the visual messages but also work on intuition and inspiration when reading too. I am fairly free with knowledge except if I have done a lot of work on something new or done a lot of research and I put it in a book. Then I will be closed mouthed as a writer should be recompensed for their work, in that way all knowledge is not free. However people who say they are in possession of Tarot secrets they cannot possibly part with are as has been said normally stroking their ego.

The development of Tarot has given a lot of wonderful symbolic additions for the serious student of Tarot as it will keep adding more to our personal Tarot journey. I know some like to be strict on what they think is acceptable on what Tarot is, where it comes from and how to read it, but I think the Tarot is too all encompassing now to be shackled by anything. In a sense it is art and all art is in the eye of the beholder.

Posted: **13 Mar 2019, 10:01**

I agree with Flaxen and Tag Jorrit's thoughts. I think they can be whatever you want them to be. The cards may have originally been based on games, but we can still use them in an esoteric or spiritual way. I don't have any personal experience with TdM, but I think this is especially true for Thoth and Rider Waite cards as their creators were very much involved with esoteric practises, so they are quite rich with symbolism if you wish to explore those for deeper meanings.

I very much disagree with anyone putting a limit on what you can do such as "it goes against the tradition to read anything deeply spiritual into the cards". Cartomancy, spirituality, divination etc. is so very personal, as the reading or insight that you do comes through you, and will depend on your own symbolism, perspectives, understandings (which may be based on some tradition or not), so at the end of the day I think it's up to the reader to decide how they wish to explore and use any given deck for these purposes. And you can find your own deeper spiritual or esoteric meanings in things that weren't originally designed for that.

Posted: **21 May 2019, 18:18**

BreathingSince72 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 06:04 Is this an esoteric tool or a simple in-plain-view tool? I have heard some say, especially in the tradition of the Marseilles, that the image is the secret. I agree with this statement. I have heard some say that the tarot is an ancient Egyptian book which I think is hogwash although I sure loved this romanticized version when I was younger.

To add to this important and worthwhile topic, I found a quote from the Meditations on the Tarot which is relevant to your mention of Egypt :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations_on_the_Tarot

and more info on the supposed author :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentin_Tomberg

The authors who saw in the Tarot the "Sacred Book of Thoth" (Thoth = Hermes Trismegistus) were both right and wrong at the same time. They were right in so far as they traced back the history of the essence of the Tarot to antiquity, notably to ancient Egypt. And they were wrong in so far as they believed that the Tarot had been inherited from ancient Egypt, i.e. that it had been transmitted from generation to generation subject to minor iconographic changes.

The Tarot comes from a long long line of esoteric and mystery teachings, as well as influenced by different philosophies, mostly Greek I would assume. It is so rich. But indeed as you say, to call it an ancient Egyptian book is just plain silly. But I reckon less and less people are saying that these days as it's been clearly debunked at least a million times.

Ancient Egyptian schools taught their secret wisdom or "sacred science" as I heard it spoken of once by using symbolism and mythology. These Egyptian schools had a huge influence on Western civilization as far as I have gleaned from the wee bit I've studied about this.

I remember once with a friend we were doing research on some symbolism (I think it had to do with Le Diable XV) and we ended up somehow in Babylonia with almost an exact replica of what we had been looking for ! We were quite surprised to end up there actually, because it wasn't where we thought we would land up. We were chuffed !!

Posted: **21 May 2019, 19:58**

BreathingSince72 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 06:04 I would enjoy some healthy discourse regarding our opinions of the nature of tarot. Is this an esoteric tool or a simple in-plain-view tool?

There are esoteric Tarots, non-esoteric Tarots, and a spectrum in between. A lot of the popular Tarots are RWS-based. RWS, in turn, is a Golden Dawn inspired Tarot with blinds built into it. So while, say, the Bohemian Gothic isn't esoteric, it has roots in an esoteric system.

I have heard some say, especially in the tradition of the Marseilles, that the image is the secret.

While the TdM images have a lot you can work with, I don't think they're the whole show. A lot of us use number and suit for the Minors. The little flowers, the configuration of the Coins, etc. are mnemonic devices for many, rather than inspiration in and of themselves.

I am new (though thoroughly obsessed) to the Marseilles and much of what I have read says that there is nothing esoteric in the Marseilles. I agree that it started as a game. I have also read that it goes against the tradition to read anything deeply spiritual into the cards...that they were designed for games and later used for simple cartomancy and fortune telling. I like open knowledge and I feel like most keepers of secret sacred knowledge use that so-called secret stuff to nurse egos.

Now that you mention that, I can't think of any humble occult Tarot guys. I'm sure people will jump in and correct me, but the big ones - Waite, Crowley, etc. - had huge egos.

"Grand Orient", anyone?

I feel like one of the most wonderful ways we can use the tarot is to locate ourselves in our inner landscape. Sure cartomancy and fortunetelling are great fun but getting an invite to enjoy the adventure of now is profound. I enjoy the tarot as a tool for psychological change and spiritual empowerment and I feel that the everyday stuff is (potentially) extremely spiritual; caring for kids, going to work...chopping wood and carrying water.

*waves at Dr. Alpert/Ram Dass*

I tend to keep it at "chopping wood and carrying water", i.e., cartomancy, rather than trying to spin it into anything deep or profound.

Posted: **21 May 2019, 20:21**

BreathingSince72 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 06:04 I feel like one of the most wonderful ways we can use the tarot is to locate ourselves in our inner landscape. Sure cartomancy and fortunetelling are great fun but getting an invite to enjoy the adventure of now is profound. I enjoy the tarot as a tool for psychological change and spiritual empowerment and I feel that the everyday stuff is (potentially) extremely spiritual; caring for kids, going to work...chopping wood and carrying water.

I think it's no surprise that early scientific study of occult/esoteric practices led to the development of the field of psychology. Freud and Jung are well known to have studied occult practices in depth but there were many others,. They saw the way people used these practices mainly for self-development and this was profoundly interesting in the study of the mind.

So, I think it is quite natural to be drawn to the transcendent qualities of Tarot reading. In fact, to me, of all the occult practices it seems the most perfect for that. But then again, tarot incorporates so many correspondences with Kabbalah, Alchemy, allegory, numerology, etc. etc. that it all combines for pretty good ride!

Posted: **30 May 2019, 20:22**

Out of all the speculation within the tarot world about wether it is esoteric or not, its true origins, etc., the most salient for me has been the tarot originating as a game. When I think of tarot, or rather a pack of cards originating as a game brings to mind all sorts of constellations of meaning regarding the human impulse for that which is ludic. The human tendency for games and play and how meaning is derived from that. I've never seen this topic fully explored and I've dreamt of going down this rabbit hole exploration myself but haven't gotten around to starting. I think games and cards are tied to the art of poetry and word games, and this puts me in mind of art, actual painting, and the impulse behind the caves of Lascaux for example. And our myths and stories of the starts, the cults and stories of our ancestors by the campfire. There is something transcendental about having the time to play and doing so. Moreover, this makes the banning of betting games and the cards by the rulers and the church more than clear. What occurs when we have free time, when we are not colonized (I know, problematic word, can't think of a better one) by this or that, by being one way doing this thing, occupied by things outside ourselves, but instead having time for the ludic activity, for engaging with our self and our experience of the world? All these thoughts I find really enticing.

Anyway, I really think tarot and fortune-telling go hand in hand, neither are extricable from the other.

Posted: **31 May 2019, 00:14**

As far as I am concerned, the word "colonized" doesn't get said enough. There is food for thought there. I won't go any further into it because it gets very racial and I don't want to stress Joan Marie, but this world is badly in need of decolonizing. If anyone wants to agree, or alternately, have a knockdown-dragout, I'm here https://www.facebook.com/stella.waldvogel

And yes, it's a game. So was Lenormand, once, albeit the pictures line up with Alemannic playing card reading (hence, Clubs are the trouble suit, not spades). Numbers, in themselves, mean things - or rather, we humans have collectively ascribed things to numbers. Suits mean things, too. The German suit for Clubs is Acorns. Nobody bothers with acorns unless they're in grinding poverty. This is why it's important not to assign RWS suits to Lenormand!

I don't find it difficult to imagine people reading Tarot from the very beginning: wifey goes to clean up after hubby's game, or the barmaid goes to clean the tables, and cuts a card wondering about what's weighing on her. Occult Tarot traditions are a relatively recent development, IMHO, but those work, too. Because everything can be broken down to numbers, with different inflections and contexts...

Posted: **31 May 2019, 17:28**

BlueStar wrote: ↑13 Mar 2019, 10:01 . Cartomancy, spirituality, divination etc. is so very personal, as the reading or insight that you do comes through you, and will depend on your own symbolism, perspectives, understandings (which may be based on some tradition or not)

This reminds of an old gypsy woman I knew once. She did quite a few Tarot readings for me. She decided I was the person she wanted to pass on her skills and knowledge. But she had such a strange way of reading and interpreting the cards (TdM) that I found it really hard to follow her train of thought. She died before I could figure out what she was trying to teach me. But her readings were so spot on that it was spooky. She predicted things in the far future (I'm talking 20 years) that came true, such unusual things that there was no way she could just guess. I still wonder how she did it.

She told me once that anyone who's in a plane with me is lucky, as I cannot have a plane accident. (But I still don't like flying!!!).

Posted: **31 May 2019, 18:16**

katrinka wrote: ↑31 May 2019, 00:14 As far as I am concerned, the word "colonized" doesn't get said enough. There is food for thought there. I won't go any further into it because it gets very racial and I don't want to stress Joan Marie, but this world is badly in need of decolonizing. If anyone wants to agree, or alternately, have a knockdown-dragout, I'm here https://www.facebook.com/stella.waldvogel

Yes, as a colonized person in a colonized island, and a colonized culture, I wholly agree. But, I also don't want to ruffle too many feathers..

We need to start talking de-colonization and approaches to de-colonize.

Posted: **31 May 2019, 18:24**

Marigold wrote: ↑31 May 2019, 17:28
BlueStar wrote: ↑13 Mar 2019, 10:01 . Cartomancy, spirituality, divination etc. is so very personal, as the reading or insight that you do comes through you, and will depend on your own symbolism, perspectives, understandings (which may be based on some tradition or not)
This reminds of an old gypsy woman I knew once. She did quite a few Tarot readings for me. She decided I was the person she wanted to pass on her skills and knowledge. But she had such a strange way of reading and interpreting the cards (TdM) that I found it really hard to follow her train of thought. She died before I could figure out what she was trying to teach me. But her readings were so spot on that it was spooky. She predicted things in the far future (I'm talking 20 years) that came true, such unusual things that there was no way she could just guess. I still wonder how she did it.

She told me once that anyone who's in a plane with me is lucky, as I cannot have a plane accident. (But I still don't like flying!!!).

Oh that is very cool and interesting. I come from a spiritist background, specifically within Caribbean folk traditions and card reading is very very very different within this perspective. There's a bigger emphasis on spirits and the messages they bring. So there's the cards, but the spirits and their message comes first, the cards second. Card reading leans more on the cartomancy side but sometimes they do bring their own esoteric and magical interpretations.

Posted: **31 May 2019, 21:26**

That's fascinating. It reminds me a little bit of Brazilian Lenomand (a long way from the Caribbean, but there's a diaspora at play here.) In Brazil (and scattered around the US and other places), the cards are used in Quimbanda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quimbanda and corresponded to Orishas and Exu spirits. Normally Lenormand doesn't have correspondences, and shouldn't be force-fitted to them, but it seems to work in this case.

There is even a spirit, Pomba Gira Cigana Cartomante ("Spinning Dove Gypsy Card Reader") who will whisper the meanings in peoples' ears. But only if it's confirmed that she's their spirit. She, and the others, shouldn't be used by outsiders. It's wrong to approach her in a new age kind of way: "Oh, that's so cool! I'm going to work with her!" PLEASE, no one do that! It's an initiatory thing, one should take the religion and be initiated into it, and it needs to be confirmed that she's your spirit.

Posted: **31 May 2019, 21:50**

katrinka wrote: ↑31 May 2019, 21:26 That's fascinating. It reminds me a little bit of Brazilian Lenomand (a long way from the Caribbean, but there's a diaspora at play here.) In Brazil (and scattered around the US and other places), the cards are used in Quimbanda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quimbanda and corresponded to Orishas and Exu spirits. Normally Lenormand doesn't have correspondences, and shouldn't be force-fitted to them, but it seems to work in this case.

There is even a spirit, Pomba Gira Cigana Cartomante ("Spinning Dove Gypsy Card Reader") who will whisper the meanings in peoples' ears. But only if it's confirmed that she's their spirit. She, and the others, shouldn't be used by outsiders. It's wrong to approach her in a new age kind of way: "Oh, that's so cool! I'm going to work with her!" PLEASE, no one do that! It's an initiatory thing, one should take the religion and be initiated into it, and it needs to be confirmed that she's your spirit.

Oh yes, I do know, Quimbanda and Sance and Caribbean spiritism and Maria Lionza from Venezuela have close ties. Lots going on there. Initiations, etc. I do know about Pomba Gira, all that and the revealing of one's spirits requieres a godmother/father in the religion to see them for the initiate and then from there one dives deeper working with one's cuadro, etc. And then more doors open, etc.

Posted: **16 Jun 2019, 07:21**

qndynes wrote: ↑30 May 2019, 20:22 Out of all the speculation within the tarot world about wether it is esoteric or not, its true origins, etc., the most salient for me has been the tarot originating as a game. When I think of tarot, or rather a pack of cards originating as a game brings to mind all sorts of constellations of meaning regarding the human impulse for that which is ludic. The human tendency for games and play and how meaning is derived from that. I've never seen this topic fully explored and I've dreamt of going down this rabbit hole exploration myself but haven't gotten around to starting. I think games and cards are tied to the art of poetry and word games, and this puts me in mind of art, actual painting, and the impulse behind the caves of Lascaux for example. And our myths and stories of the starts, the cults and stories of our ancestors by the campfire. There is something transcendental about having the time to play and doing so. Moreover, this makes the banning of betting games and the cards by the rulers and the church more than clear. What occurs when we have free time, when we are not colonized (I know, problematic word, can't think of a better one) by this or that, by being one way doing this thing, occupied by things outside ourselves, but instead having time for the ludic activity, for engaging with our self and our experience of the world? All these thoughts I find really enticing.

Anyway, I really think tarot and fortune-telling go hand in hand, neither are extricable from the other.

It is rather unfortunate that the rich seam of French intellectual writings on Tarot has never been mined, neither in French, never mind in English, for we find rather surprising connections, such as Roger Caillois - a sociologist and specialist of games - being rather taken with the Tarot, for instance. His writings on the game itself have largely escaped the notice of those more interested in cartomancy or occult speculation. In English, one may read Man, Play and Games, but that's it, I'm afraid. His writings on Tarot are contained in his encyclopaedia of games, and he also wrote a preface to a reissue of Oswald Wirth's tome, which went untranslated in the recent English edition of that work.

I recall there was once a French document online which examined cartomancy (or taromancy if you prefer) filtered through the lens of the Game of Tarot itself - its rules and basic premises, etc, which was most interesting, I'll have to find it again soon.

As to poetry and its relation to divinatory arts, I am quite sure that there must be some academic treatment of the matter, at the very least with respect to the Chinese world.

Posted: **16 Jun 2019, 07:56**

BreathingSince72 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 06:04 I would enjoy some healthy discourse regarding our opinions of the nature of tarot. Is this an esoteric tool or a simple in-plain-view tool? I have heard some say, especially in the tradition of the Marseilles, that the image is the secret. I agree with this statement. I have heard some say that the tarot is an ancient Egyptian book which I think is hogwash although I sure loved this romanticized version when I was younger. I do feel like we can lay the tarot structure like a transparency, over any wisdom teaching in order to learn it. The tarot lends itself so well to all of these things.

I am new (though thoroughly obsessed) to the Marseilles and much of what I have read says that there is nothing esoteric in the Marseilles. I agree that it started as a game. I have also read that it goes against the tradition to read anything deeply spiritual into the cards...that they were designed for games and later used for simple cartomancy and fortune telling. I like open knowledge and I feel like most keepers of secret sacred knowledge use that so-called secret stuff to nurse egos. But I do still appreciate looking at the major arcana as the story of our unique personal growth.

I feel like one of the most wonderful ways we can use the tarot is to locate ourselves in our inner landscape. Sure cartomancy and fortunetelling are great fun but getting an invite to enjoy the adventure of now is profound. I enjoy the tarot as a tool for psychological change and spiritual empowerment and I feel that the everyday stuff is (potentially) extremely spiritual; caring for kids, going to work...chopping wood and carrying water.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

This would appear to be more a matter of definitions than anything else. French Tarot authors have long decried the RWS and other "occult" decks (those by Wirth, Papus et al.) as being vulgar and gaudy, deliberately adding "esoteric symbols" due to the lack of insight of their respective creators. The secret is in the TDM image - that would be the main difference, between the earlier decks and those "occult decks" created post-Etteilla. But the so-called deeper meaning has always co-existed alongside the cartomantic meanings, and this from the beginning - see Court de Gebelin and de Mellet's work, for instance. These are but 2 different applications on different planes.

But, on a different level, what most of the historically-minded cannot seem to appreciate is how a mere game (since we know that historically the Tarot was a game first) could be a vehicle for higher truths, and to give an example, one could do worse than read the following essay on the game of Chess, a game which has no divinatory usage that I know of, but which is highly instructive with regards the connection between the symbolic aspect and the ludic one. It goes without saying that, in this scheme of things, divination is but the practical application of metaphysical truth.
http://www.studiesincomparativereligion ... hardt.aspx

Posted: **16 Jun 2019, 12:07**

_R_ wrote: ↑16 Jun 2019, 07:21
qndynes wrote: ↑30 May 2019, 20:22 Out of all the speculation within the tarot world about wether it is esoteric or not, its true origins, etc., the most salient for me has been the tarot originating as a game. When I think of tarot, or rather a pack of cards originating as a game brings to mind all sorts of constellations of meaning regarding the human impulse for that which is ludic. The human tendency for games and play and how meaning is derived from that. I've never seen this topic fully explored and I've dreamt of going down this rabbit hole exploration myself but haven't gotten around to starting. I think games and cards are tied to the art of poetry and word games, and this puts me in mind of art, actual painting, and the impulse behind the caves of Lascaux for example. And our myths and stories of the starts, the cults and stories of our ancestors by the campfire. There is something transcendental about having the time to play and doing so. Moreover, this makes the banning of betting games and the cards by the rulers and the church more than clear. What occurs when we have free time, when we are not colonized (I know, problematic word, can't think of a better one) by this or that, by being one way doing this thing, occupied by things outside ourselves, but instead having time for the ludic activity, for engaging with our self and our experience of the world? All these thoughts I find really enticing.

Anyway, I really think tarot and fortune-telling go hand in hand, neither are extricable from the other.
It is rather unfortunate that the rich seam of French intellectual writings on Tarot has never been mined, neither in French, never mind in English, for we find rather surprising connections, such as Roger Caillois - a sociologist and specialist of games - being rather taken with the Tarot, for instance. His writings on the game itself have largely escaped the notice of those more interested in cartomancy or occult speculation. In English, one may read Man, Play and Games, but that's it, I'm afraid. His writings on Tarot are contained in his encyclopaedia of games, and he also wrote a preface to a reissue of Oswald Wirth's tome, which went untranslated in the recent English edition of that work.

I recall there was once a French document online which examined cartomancy (or taromancy if you prefer) filtered through the lens of the Game of Tarot itself - its rules and basic premises, etc, which was most interesting, I'll have to find it again soon.

As to poetry and its relation to divinatory arts, I am quite sure that there must be some academic treatment of the matter, at the very least with respect to the Chinese world.

Oh, I might be able to read these works myself. Thank you for the suggestions. I took years of french in college, I think they could serve me well enough in decifering these works. I will see... Definitely my interest is re-piqued. Thank you.

Posted: **16 Jun 2019, 12:11**

_R_ wrote: ↑18 Aug 2018, 06:04
But, on a different level, what most of the historically-minded cannot seem to appreciate is how a mere game (since we know that historically the Tarot was a game first) could be a vehicle for higher truths, and to give an example, one could do worse than read the following essay on the game of Chess, a game which has no divinatory usage that I know of, but which is highly instructive with regards the connection between the symbolic aspect and the ludic one. It goes without saying that, in this scheme of things, divination is but the practical application of metaphysical truth.
http://www.studiesincomparativereligion ... hardt.aspx

Yes! Exactly this, I failed in wording my thoughts properly but yes, my thoughts exactly. Will give this article on chess a read.

Posted: **16 Jun 2019, 12:13**

The full reference is “Les Cartes” in Jeux et Sports, Encyclopédie de la Pléiade, if you are able to locate a copy (perhaps in a university).

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