The Fools Journey

[AeonHorus]

Just found this and thought that i'd give it a share!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgYwyhWgIGU

[Diana]

What a delightful video. Thanks for sharing.

Only it's not the Fool who's taking the journey in the video - it's Le Bateleur. I was glad to see this because the title of your thread had me sighing.

I've always always always insisted that it's Le Bateleur who takes the journey through the Tarot. I'm so convinced about this that nothing ever could make me change my mind. Not even for a thousand trillion Swiss Francs. I sub-title always the TdM as Le Voyage du Bateleur.

That being said, some very fine French tarologists don't agree with me. Most do though.

The main argument by these few and fine tarologists who say it's the Fool's Journey, is that he's walking and Le Bateleur isn't. But I don't think this makes sense. It's not as literal as that The Tarot. It's much more mysterious than that.

[AeonHorus]

I have to agree.

I have always looked at the Fool more as a state of mind rather than an actual entity, the Magician making the journey makes perfect sense.
This is why (I feel anyway) why the Fool carries either no number or a 0 as it is in this empty headed state that we (the Magician) start out on any of life's journeys.

[Pen]

I have to agree.

I have always looked at the Fool more as a state of mind rather than an actual entity, the Magician making the journey makes perfect sense.
This is why (I feel anyway) why the Fool carries either no number or a 0 as it is in this empty headed state that we (the Magician) start out on any of life's journeys.

I did enjoy the film - thanks.

What a delightful video. Thanks for sharing.


I've always always always insisted that it's Le Bateleur who takes the journey through the Tarot. I'm so convinced about this that nothing every could make me change my mind. Not even for a thousand trillion Swiss Francs. I sub-title always the TdM as Le Voyage du Bateleur.

That being said, some very fine French tarologists don't agree with me. Most do though.

The main argument by these few and fine tarologists who say it's the Fool's Journey, is that he's walking and Le Bateleur isn't. But I don't think this makes sense. It's not as literal as that The Tarot. It's much more mysterious than that.

It it a feeling, Diana, or can you shed some light on your view of the mystery of the journey? As someone who has always accepted Thirteen's analysis (over at Aeclectic), I'm curious...

[Diana]

It it a feeling, Diana, or can you shed some light on your view of the mystery of the journey? As someone who has always accepted Thirteen's analysis (over at Aeclectic), I'm curious...

Thank you Pen for your input. I always had a great respect for Thirteen and her writings.

Now, you've opened a big big question here haven't you? First of all, one has to start out from the premise that there is a journey in the TdM. There are some who refuse completely the idea that there is a journey at all. That there's no particular sequence to the cards and that the numbers have nothing occult but were just plonked on it so as to be able to play the card game. These are people mostly who don't think there is anything esoteric or occult in the Tarot. Occult in the sense of the etymology, which comes from the Latin "conceal, hidden, secret". Not in the sense of the modern usage which is "mystical, supernatural, or magical powers, practices, or phenomen.".

But I am of the school which believes that the Major Arcana of the Tarot are a journey: an initiatory journey. And a journey to enlightenment, whatever meaning one wishes to give to that term. Particularly as the Major Arcana finish with Judgement (resurrection) and the World. And also because when analysing and studying the cards, it makes wonderful sense that it's Le Bateleur who takes it.

There are many things to speak of here, but to start with I'd like to get it sorted out what a Bateleur is. It's a French word with no equivalent in English and that's why it's so hard to translate and so even in English we just stick to Le Bateleur. Usually. But even if it is translated as The Magician for practical reasons, it's got a different slant to it than the RWS magician.

To start with, because I need to get my thoughts in order and I've just woken from an 5 hours siesta so I'm feeling a big fuzzy to go into deeper stuff, one would need to know what a Bateleur is. Le Bateleur is NOT a Magician in the RWS sense. Perhaps also the Thoth but I know so little about the Thoth that I would not dare to speak of it.

If he were a Magician, he would have been called "Le Magicien" or "Le Sorcier". There are perfectly good words in French for a Magician.

So I'm just going here to explain what a Bateleur was in the Middle Ages in case some people have this information missing. Even the French don't really know what a Bateleur is, because the profession has completely disappeared. There were still some traces of it in the fifteenth and sixteen centuries but then they were no more. My research into the word Bateleur leads me to believe that this word was first used in about the thirteenth century.

Now, in the Middle Ages, the bateleur was a kind of entertainer/mountebank with no well-defined character. In the twelfth, thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, these entertainers were very popular, even honoured, either in the public square or in the castles. As a generic name, these public entertainers were called jugglers. They were nomads, and sometimes accompanied the trouvères (a trouvère was a medieval epic poet) or the troubadours, sometimes they travelled alone.

Kris Hadar reminds us that "the Bateleur was originally a Juggler and in the 12th century, to be a juggler was a respected profession : it had to do with speaking, voicing … nothing to do with the jugglers of the Roman times, or the jugglers found in 13th Century fairs. Read the book Nouvelles Occitanes du Moyen Age (Collection GF Flammarion), and you will understand that the juggler is the spokesman of the Troubador, but also the spokesman of Knowledge." (translation from an email Kris Hadar sent me once).

The Bateleur always travelled as in my explanation above. He was a nomad. A bit like a fairground traveller today.

That is my first observation. And I'll leave it here for the moment so as to not address too many different issues in one post.

I think it's very very important to realise that Le Bateleur is not a Magician.... although of course, he does perform magic in a way. We would need to define what magic is before we get into that !

Next we'll probably have to discuss what a Fool is. In French, the card is sometimes called Le Fou or Le Fol, but it is more common for it to be referred to as "Le Mat" the etymology of which is highly mysterious. Once we've figured out what Le Mat is, we could maybe then figure out who is doing the Journey. In my head, I always call it "Le Mat" but on English Tarot forums and discussions in English, I go along with The Fool as it's also called sometimes Le Fou in French so I can accept that. And it's easier for people to understand. Again, if you ask a French person today what a "Mat" is they'll tell you that the word doesn't exist and that you're making things up. It's a very very old word and no-one has ever come to a definitive conclusion as to its etymology or sense. But I have of course done my own research and have reached certain conclusions of my own.

[Pen]

Thanks for your thoughts Diana, I see where you're coming from now.

The image above is from The Children of the Planets by the Hausbuch Meister - this is Luna. Wikimedia's image bank says the date is sometime after 1480. I remember when I posted it on the Tarot History Forum someone commented that my 'magician' in the foreground seemed to be a dentist, but perhaps that was one of the many things they did on their travels. The discussion that follows is interesting, (there's a larger image there too), although somewhat embarrassing for me at the time - everyone was so much more learned than yours truly, although I did improve. And the figure in the front with the little dog and the monkey on his back may even be the Fool.

[Diana]

The image above is from The Children of the Planets by the Hausbuch Meister - this is Luna. Wikimedia's image bank says the date is sometime after 1480. I remember when I posted it on the Tarot History Forum someone commented that my 'magician' in the foreground seemed to be a dentist, but perhaps that was one of the many things they did on their travels. The discussion that follows is interesting, (there's a larger image there too), although somewhat embarrassing for me at the time - everyone was so much more learned than yours truly, although I did improve. And the figure in the front with the little dog and the monkey on his back may even be the Fool.

I read that fascinating discussion on tarothistory.com some time back. I enjoyed it immensely and was very grateful for it. It was a most curious find that image and the connection. And a worthy contribution to tarot history.

[AeonHorus]

There are many things to speak of here, but to start with I'd like to get it sorted out what a Bateleur is. It's a French word with no equivalent in English and that's why it's so hard to translate and so even in English we just stick to Le Bateleur. Usually. But even if it is translated as The Magician for practical reasons, it's got a different slant to it than the RWS magician.

To start with, because I need to get my thoughts in order and I've just woken from an 5 hours siesta so I'm feeling a big fuzzy to go into deeper stuff, one would need to know what a Bateleur is. Le Bateleur is NOT a Magician in the RWS sense. Perhaps also the Thoth but I know so little about the Thoth that I would not dare to speak of it.

If he were a Magician, he would have been called "Le Magicien" or "Le Sorcier". There are perfectly good words in French for a Magician.

So I'm just going here to explain what a Bateleur was in the Middle Ages in case some people have this information missing. Even the French don't really know what a Bateleur is, because the profession has completely disappeared. There were still some traces of it in the fifteenth and sixteen centuries but then they were no more. My research into the word Bateleur leads me to believe that this word was first used in about the thirteenth century.

Now, in the Middle Ages, the bateleur was a kind of entertainer/mountebank with no well-defined character. In the twelfth, thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, these entertainers were very popular, even honoured, either in the public square or in the castles. As a generic name, these public entertainers were called jugglers. They were nomads, and sometimes accompanied the trouvères (a trouvère was a medieval epic poet) or the troubadours, sometimes they travelled alone.

Kris Hadar reminds us that "the Bateleur was originally a Juggler and in the 12th century, to be a juggler was a respected profession : it had to do with speaking, voicing … nothing to do with the jugglers of the Roman times, or the jugglers found in 13th Century fairs. Read the book Nouvelles Occitanes du Moyen Age (Collection GF Flammarion), and you will understand that the juggler is the spokesman of the Troubador, but also the spokesman of Knowledge." (translation from an email Kris Hadar sent me once).

The Bateleur always travelled as in my explanation above. He was a nomad. A bit like a fairground traveller today.

That is my first observation. And I'll leave it here for the moment so as to not address too many different issues in one post.

I think it's very very important to realise that Le Bateleur is not a Magician.... although of course, he does perform magic in a way. We would need to define what magic is before we get into that !

Next we'll probably have to discuss what a Fool is. In French, the card is sometimes called Le Fou or Le Fol, but it is more common for it to be referred to as "Le Mat" the etymology of which is highly mysterious. Once we've figured out what Le Mat is, we could maybe then figure out who is doing the Journey. In my head, I always call it "Le Mat" but on English Tarot forums and discussions in English, I go along with The Fool as it's also called sometimes Le Fou in French so I can accept that. And it's easier for people to understand. Again, if you ask a French person today what a "Mat" is they'll tell you that the word doesn't exist and that you're making things up. It's a very very old word and no-one has ever come to a definitive conclusion as to its etymology or sense. But I have of course done my own research and have reached certain conclusions of my own.

Thanks Diana

This does shed some light on things for me.
I have to agree that Le Bateleur is not a Magician
Coming from mainly esoteric traditions in tarot (I cut my teeth on Thoth) Since starting to study TdM I am also studying the Playing cards and Cartomancy and to me for the Pips they seem to be intrinsically intertwined and as they both go back historically as far into the past, I feel there are too many similarities to neglect to acknowledge. Anyway I digress

Going back to what Diana said "Le Bateleur is not a Magician"
In TdM we are supposed to read what we see right?
Well to me (maybe as an outsider fresh in with no preconceptions) I see him more as a market Hawker, hawking his wares to an unsuspecting public. All his wares seem to be magikal as in he has a wand (or is this a magikal flute as in the Pied Piper?), dice, a ceremonial knife and other knick knacks.
The question I have been asking myself though is this....

Hawker or Punter?

I feel he can be either depending on your train of thought for the Fool.

If the fool is an entity who embarks on this journey then Le Bateleur is the first entity the Fool shall meet.

If on the other hand you (as I do) see the fool as a "state of mind" then Le Bateleur is a punter looking to see what he wishes to purchase from the stall and you are looking on as from the stall holders perspective.

There is meaning behind the image of trickery and the way he is looking around all shifty and that, sort of reminds me of a shoplifter too. I mean what is he doing with his right hand? Looks like he is trying to conceal something, slip it under his jacket whilst holding the wand/flute in his left hand, promoting the imagery of "sleight of hand" trickery again.
So...
Could 'Le Bateleur' mean something similar to 'the Battler' meaning someone who battles on no matter the risk or consequence? Which could take us back to the word or "will" the will to make progress no matter what, at all cost, no matter the consequence.

Just a little fodder for thinking

[Merrick]

I agree with everyone else who said that the TdM does not represent the Fool’s journey. I think about the times in which those decks were made. Fools, or jesters, were entertainers. They were commentators. They did not play a significant, active role in events, instead they remarked on what happened around them. I believe this is in part why The Fool is unnumbered in the TdM, because the Fool stood apart. In this way, I don’t see the Fool as being meaningful as an individual card. I believe his presence in a spread is there to get you to think twice about what meanings you’re reading from the other cards. He’s the only card in the entire deck who isn’t formally tied to the deck structure. He has no number and no suit. I personally see him as having a different purpose from any other card in the deck and I read him accordingly, as a modifier to other cards.

As for it being the Bataleur’s journey, I’m not sure I necessarily agree with that. I do believe the trumps describe a journey, but are we not the ones taking the journey? I recognize we often use significators when doing spreads but any of the majors represent aspects of the human experience so why are we assigning the experiencing of these to a specific card within the deck when that card in and of itself also represents only a part of the journey? To me The Bataleur represents the state we’re in as we start the journey, but the journey is ours, not the Bataleur. The Bataleur stays where he is so we can recognize him when we encounter him again. He may have different insights for us depending on the cards around him, and our life experience, but that’s because we’ve been journeying, not him.

As these cards represent fundamental aspects of the human experience, I find the distinction important. If the Bataleur goes on the journey, then who am I in relation to the Bataleur? Is the Bataleur experiencing each card, or am I?

I would be happy to hear arguments for why this is the Bataleur’s journey though. I love to encounter different perspectives on the tarot. I’m working through my relationship with the cards and this is where I’m at right now.

[Pen]

I've always felt that the Joker in a pack of playing cards is the equivalent of the tarot Fool, although I've seen this discussed on different forums and the consensus seems to be that they're completely unrelated. The TdM and the Cary Sheet must surely must have come first (although I don't think the Fool is one of the images we have from that particular tarot), but if the Joker was based (from tradition and memory) on the role of the Fool in the actual game of tarot and (I'm making a leap of faith rather than logic here), if the occult meaning derived from this, it would seem to suggest that his role may be (or may have been) similar to the Joker in modern pack of cards.

My mother told me once that her father would always remove the Joker from a new pack of playing cards and throw him on the fire, but he was an Irish/Scottish Presbyterian and it's probably more surprising that he allowed cards in the house at all. This may or may not suggest that the Joker was regarded as a disruptive trickster or simply plain evil and I'm wondering if that taint can connect in any way to the Fool on the old cards.

But I'm digressing and groping around in the dark a bit with these ideas, so please feel free to ignore them. And of course everything that can evolves over time, and even a hundred? years after the early tarot cards we know of, Francesco Piscina and another who remains anonymous, each wrote a discourse on the meaning of the tarot and the order of the figures, which seems to suggest that although the figures on the cards were familiar to most if not all, their roles and symbolism needed clarification.

Piscina explained that he "composed this work ...because of a sudden caprice that entered our mind during a feast day, upon seeing a very honoured and gentle lady Lady of this city pleasantly playing...

Explaining the Tarot

For me, this is such a tantalizing statement. The image that comes to mind is that she was playing alone - Patience, reading the cards for herself or pondering on their meaning? Or perhaps she was playing a game of tarot with others and he had eyes only for her. The mystery is lovely though.

With all these complications, I feel the need to include the artists and artisans of tarot and playing cards, who, working for either a patron, by commission or simply employed by a printer, interpreted the images in their own way (or encoded them with Mysteries?), which led to all the fascinating variations in both old and modern designs we have today.

[Pen]

The image above is from The Children of the Planets by the Hausbuch Meister - this is Luna. Wikimedia's image bank says the date is sometime after 1480. I remember when I posted it on the Tarot History Forum someone commented that my 'magician' in the foreground seemed to be a dentist, but perhaps that was one of the many things they did on their travels. The discussion that follows is interesting, (there's a larger image there too), although somewhat embarrassing for me at the time - everyone was so much more learned than yours truly, although I did improve. And the figure in the front with the little dog and the monkey on his back may even be the Fool.

I read that fascinating discussion on tarothistory.com some time back. I enjoyed it immensely and was very grateful for it. It was a most curious find that image and the connection. And a worthy contribution to tarot history.

Thanks Diana, but I'm not sure I can claim any contribution to tarot history, someone else may have made that particular connection before I did.