Cult of Tarot Forum

Greetings Tarot Tribe,

The month of September shall soon be upon us. When I think of September, at least in my region, I think of the last rounds of barbecues and camp outs. I think of the appearance of fall colors and the upcoming Fall equinox and all that this symbolizes. Leaves wither and fall from deciduous trees. We rake them up in piles and jump into the crunchy goodness.

The fall invites participation in a different way than summer. It invites us to play and participate but also to make the experience a part of ousrsleves as we wind down into the colder, more introspective months. We have completed one cycle and prepare for new gestation and growth.

For this months reading I thought we might try the Tirage En Croix Tarot Spread. This is attributed to Alec Satin at http://tarot.alecsatin.com/ The attached documents will explain how this is done. I am, however, going to suggest an alternate means for capturing the quintessence. Instead of using theological reduction 18+8=26 2+6=8= Justice, I thought we could add our cards...18+8=26. In this case we won’t reduce in the typical manner but subtract the number 22 from the result. 26-22=4=Emporer. Anything over 22 has the number 22 subtracted from it until we end up with a result between 1 and 22. I hope that makes sense.

We will do readings in round robin style. Partners will be assigned after sign-ups are over, which will be the 7th of September.
Happy Reading,

Victoria

I’d like to sign up this month please.

hi victoria,

what is the reason for this alternative way to calculate the quintessence? and how does it change the reading? is the message different when we subtract 22 from the added numbers? and why 22 and not another number? will the effect be different if we subtract 10? (thinking of the first and second decan) or instead 7 and/or 14? (if we take the three leveled approach)
just curious about the concept behind this system

count me in for september, would love to try the tirage en croix in whatever way

stronglove wrote: ↑30 Aug 2018, 17:30 hi victoria,

what is the reason for this alternative way to calculate the quintessence? and how does it change the reading? is the message different when we subtract 22 from the added numbers? and why 22 and not another number? will the effect be different if we subtract 10? (thinking of the first and second decan) or instead 7 and/or 14? (if we take the three leveled approach)
just curious about the concept behind this system

count me in for september, would love to try the tirage en croix in whatever way

For the record, I'm vehemently opposed to this proposed way of calculating the quintessence. That, of course, shouldn't stop anyone else from doing it. I don't have time at this moment to go into my rationale, but I'll do so when I get a chance.

The concept of this system, as I understand it, is that it allows each of the trumps to have an equal chance of being the quintessence. Using Theosophical addition The Papess, for example, will never be the quint.

My reasoning is that there is a greater likelihood of getting any one of the 22 majors as a result. With that said, it is suggestive only so if this is not something everyone wants to do, we won’t do it.

Victoria

BreathingSince72 wrote: ↑30 Aug 2018, 20:28 My reasoning is that there is a greater likelihood of getting any one of the 22 majors as a result.

I don't think that's a good thing. Or at the very least no one has explained to me why it's inherently better.

for me it would be great to just use the tirage en croix as it is suggested on the pages. i have never used this spread nor have i worked with (calculating) the quintessence before, so i would like to first try this out at least once. i’m all for exploring variations on tried and true traditional spreads and systems but i wouldn’t feel good about it if i hadn’t familiarized myself with the ‘standard’ first.....

stronglove wrote: ↑30 Aug 2018, 21:28 for me it would be great to just use the tirage en croix as it is suggested on the pages. i have never used this spread nor have i worked with (calculating) the quintessence before, so i would like to first try this out at least once. i’m all for exploring variations on tried and true traditional spreads and systems but i wouldn’t feel good about it if i hadn’t familiarized myself with the ‘standard’ first.....

I use it quite a bit. At least every month or two. My sense is that it's THE spread of modern French TdM readers. There's a ton of variants, but I'm starting to get behind Oswald Wirth's version, which doesn't use the quintessence as an answer to the question but uses it as a kind of character card that gives an overall tone to the reading.

Charlie Brown wrote: ↑30 Aug 2018, 21:39 I use it quite a bit. At least every month or two. My sense is that it's THE spread of modern French TdM readers. There's a ton of variants, but I'm starting to get behind Oswald Wirth's version, which doesn't use the quintessence as an answer to the question but uses it as a kind of character card that gives an overall tone to the reading.

My understanding if the quintessence is similar in that, I feel like it is more of an undertone...although sometimes, the undertone is the answer. Let’s continue to flesh out the details. I am open to anything that serves the whole group and following the papers first time out will create less confusion.

Charlie Brown wrote: ↑30 Aug 2018, 20:37 I don't think that's a good thing. Or at the very least no one has explained to me why it's inherently better.

It’s not about it being inherently better, it’s about trying new things, experimenting, and learning what works for us in our own way.

Charlie Brown wrote: ↑30 Aug 2018, 21:39
I use it quite a bit. At least every month or two. My sense is that it's THE spread of modern French TdM readers. There's a ton of variants, but I'm starting to get behind Oswald Wirth's version, which doesn't use the quintessence as an answer to the question but uses it as a kind of character card that gives an overall tone to the reading.

I am involved with a French speaking Marseille group and this is the spread I see being discussed with the greatest frequency...nearly every time. It’s a handy little spread. I used something like this for years but it had a different name and a more elemental focus.

BreathingSince72 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018, 04:27 It’s not about it being inherently better,

I think Alec Satin would definitely say it's better. Isn't his whole point that the normal method of calculating a quintessence is inherently flawed?

ETA: I looked again and I see Satin uses the traditional quintessence. There is a specific guy who started this -22 thing though, no? I'm quite certain it was motivated by a notion that there needed to be an equal chance for any of the trumps to be a quint and that the traditional method was inherently wrong.

BreathingSince72 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018, 04:17 My understanding if the quintessence is similar in that, I feel like it is more of an undertone...although sometimes, the undertone is the answer. Let’s continue to flesh out the details. I am open to anything that serves the whole group and following the papers first time out will create less confusion.

Most versions of the cross I've seen denote the quintessence as the "answer" card. It seems that this author is using a similar understanding to Wirth's.

Charlie Brown wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018, 04:58

BreathingSince72 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018, 04:27 It’s not about it being inherently better,

I think Alec Satin would definitely say it's better. Isn't his whole point that the normal method of calculating a quintessence is inherently flawed?

ETA: I looked again and I see Satin uses the traditional quintessence. There is a specific guy who started this -22 thing though, no? I'm quite certain it was motivated by a notion that there needed to be an equal chance for any of the trumps to be a quint and that the traditional method was inherently wrong.

Charlie Brown, for our purposes here, I don't feel it's about being inherently better. This may be the reason it started but this is not why I am suggesting the option.

Greetings All,

We have three days left. So far I see four of us: Flaxen, stronglove, Charlie Brown, and myself. Calling all historic deck lovers, new and old! You are mst welcome to join us.

Victoria