Book of Thoth Etteilla

[Ailsaek]

Anybody else have this deck or have studied Etteilla? I just got mine yesterday and am fascinated and would love to talk to people about it. I also picked up a copy of Paul Huson’s book on the Dame Fortune’s Wheel Tarot, because it’s Etteilla-based, or at least the minors are. I’m really loving Etteilla’s alternative take on the Majors, I wish someone else used them.

[stronglove]

i am a big etteilla fan, i have five decks based on his system, the book of thoth, the etteilla lismon, the grand etteilla,the etteilla egyptiens, the esoteric ancient. i cannot explain why i am so crazy about his decks, i tried to read with them intuitively, which worked some of the time but not very often, tried to find out more about his system, which helped a bit but not a lot, but the images and the keywords keep touching my heartstrings..... i have a similar fondness for the papus (i have 2 versions of that one), the minchiate decks, the rosenwald and the tarot de paris. no idea what it is but just looking at those images makes me weak in in the knees..... i tried the deck of the bastard, which uses some of etteilla’s images, but it is mainly an RWS-clone so that doesn’t have the same appeal. maybe we could set up a mini-study-group and comment on eachother’s readings?
i did find a dutch site about etteilla, with a pdf in english of the meanings attributed to the grand etteilla in different systems
http://www.slechten.be/etteilla/meanings/grimaud.pdf

[Ailsaek]

Awesome! I am having such a hard time finding people who are interested in him and his decks. I have got to go check out your link now.

[stronglove]

the only useable and interesting lwb goes with the grand etteilla, you might want to check this link, it contains photographs of all the english pages
https://etteilla.wordpress.com/lwb/
it contains some background, some interesting spreads and the card meanings have two different parts, one for when you draw only the one card, and one for when the card is next to (an)other card(s), never seen that before in any lwb.
also, the keywords are different on the different versions and editions, as are some images. the website i linked to has some examples of the major arcana of those different editions.

[stronglove]

also really happy to finally have met an etteilla fan! your post had me take out all my etteilla decks and i fell in love with them all over again.... the petit etteilla is still on my wishlist, it is what etteilla based his tarot on as well as the first ever lenormand deck, i found a site that helps you turn ordinary playing cards into a petit etteilla deck but i would like to have a ‘real’ one as well
https://aminoapps.com/c/pagans-witches/ ... jMWdMqPvkw

[_R_]

Papus' second book on Tarot, The Divinatory Tarot, will contain a lot more details on Etteilla's methods, for those interested.

[Ailsaek]

These are wonderful sites, and now I need to look for the book as well. (I really wish Dame Fortune’s Wheel used Etteilla’s trumps.)

[Ailsaek]

I just found another deck that uses Etteilla’s minors!

Tarocco Indovino by Dal Negro

[arlecchino]

hi! i got the very same deck a few weeks ago and joined this forum specifically to find other people to talk about it with. my experiences trying to read with it have been funky so far, because of the keywords, i don't know whether to treat it more like tarot or lenormand. but i think it's fascinating! i also ordered a book by paul huson, "mystical origins of the tarot," seems like he's one of the few people publishing information on etteilla in english, hah.

[Ailsaek]

hi! i got the very same deck a few weeks ago and joined this forum specifically to find other people to talk about it with. my experiences trying to read with it have been funky so far, because of the keywords, i don't know whether to treat it more like tarot or lenormand. but i think it's fascinating! i also ordered a book by paul huson, "mystical origins of the tarot," seems like he's one of the few people publishing information on etteilla in english, hah.

That’s high on my to-buy list.

I find I prefer wordier card descriptions, rather than lists of keywords, so I am thinking of writing my own. If I ever get started on my own deck, it’s going to be based on Etteilla.

[arlecchino]

hi! i got the very same deck a few weeks ago and joined this forum specifically to find other people to talk about it with. my experiences trying to read with it have been funky so far, because of the keywords, i don't know whether to treat it more like tarot or lenormand. but i think it's fascinating! i also ordered a book by paul huson, "mystical origins of the tarot," seems like he's one of the few people publishing information on etteilla in english, hah.

That’s high on my to-buy list.

I find I prefer wordier card descriptions, rather than lists of keywords, so I am thinking of writing my own. If I ever get started on my own deck, it’s going to be based on Etteilla.

when you say writing your own, you mean card descriptions? i have to do that for any lo scarabeo deck because the included booklets are so sparse and weird.

i'm working on a second marseille-ish deck and it seems like it would be REALLY fun to do an etteilla based deck instead, especially in the minor arcana!

[Diana]

i'm working on a second marseille-ish deck and it seems like it would be REALLY fun to do an etteilla based deck instead, especially in the minor arcana!

Any work in progress that we can see to have a privileged preview ? I like the idea for the minors. It would make for a very nice connection between these two traditions that are after all in the same family. Similar genes.

[arlecchino]

Any work in progress that we can see to have a privileged preview ? I like the idea for the minors. It would make for a very nice connection between these two traditions that are after all in the same family. Similar genes.

oh i'm not confident enough yet to have done any etteilla-based illustrations! i only just started going through the cards to find translations and elaborations on the keywords.

before i'd been kind of making my own "keywords" based on the method in the way of the tarot - taking the character of the number from the major arcana, plus the character of the suit from the elemental and other associations, then just making up a picture based on that. but since that's so subjective i think it'd be fun in the future to work with the existing set of very specific and different meanings for all the minor arcana! i find a lot of the waite-smith illustrations same-y and not very inspiring, it's a lot more fun to come up with pictures based on the un-illustrated meanings.

the remixing of marseille in etteilla's major arcana is really interesting, and i don't understand all of his reorderings yet. but one thing i think is really cool is that he added "prudence" who is conspicuously missing from marseille (though i think i have seen prudence associated with "the world"?)

[Diana]

oh i'm not confident enough yet to have done any etteilla-based illustrations! i only just started going through the cards to find translations and elaborations on the keywords.

before i'd been kind of making my own "keywords" based on the method in the way of the tarot - taking the character of the number from the major arcana, plus the character of the suit from the elemental and other associations, then just making up a picture based on that. but since that's so subjective i think it'd be fun in the future to work with the existing set of very specific and different meanings for all the minor arcana! i find a lot of the waite-smith illustrations same-y and not very inspiring, it's a lot more fun to come up with pictures based on the un-illustrated meanings.

the remixing of marseille in etteilla's major arcana is really interesting, and i don't understand all of his reorderings yet. but one thing i think is really cool is that he added "prudence" who is conspicuously missing from marseille (though i think i have seen prudence associated with "the world"?)

Oh, well if you can give us some work in progress of your pre-work in progress, that would be wonderful ! A really worthwhile project you're working on. I'm sure it'll give you a huge push in understanding the Tarot.

Oh about Prudence and the TdM. If ever you put 10 Tarot de Marseilles aficianodos in a room and ask them about Prudence, make sure there's nothing in the room that can be used as a weapon !! Things can get dangerous. Everyone has their opinion and they all differ.

There's no Prudence in the TdM. If there were, there would be a card called Prudence. (Now, where is my Sword - I may need a weapon here!!! I can already here one tarotist rushing in to say "no, it's The Papesse - that's obvious", and another one something else. I think I may just slip quietly out the room before the door gets locked and leave the others to it. But on leaving they will hear me mutter softly "there's no Prudence in the TdM.)

[arlecchino]

Oh, well if you can give us some work in progress of your pre-work in progress, that would be wonderful ! A really worthwhile project you're working on. I'm sure it'll give you a huge push in understanding the Tarot.

Oh about Prudence and the TdM. If ever you put 10 Tarot de Marseilles aficianodos in a room and ask them about Prudence, make sure there's nothing in the room that can be used as a weapon !! Things can get dangerous. Everyone has their opinion and they all differ.

There's no Prudence in the TdM. If there were, there would be a card called Prudence. (Now, where is my Sword - I may need a weapon here!!! I can already here one tarotist rushing in to say "no, it's The Papesse - that's obvious", and another one something else. I think I may just slip quietly out the room before the door gets locked and leave the others to it. But on leaving they will hear me mutter softly "there's no Prudence in the TdM.)

the deck i'm working on right now is based entirely on joanna newsom lyrics, perhaps i will try posting here when i finish the next suit (if it's not too niche)

haha! pretty much as soon as i submitted my comment i went to look up more 1400s decks, since in the estensi deck, the lady on trump 21 is haloed in the same manner as justice, strength, and temperance (while the angels in other cards are not haloed)... which makes it seem like she must be prudence. but it seems like it's peculiar to this one deck.

so as much as i love a good swordfight i'll have to agree that there's no prudence in the marseille decks!

[Diana]

the deck i'm working on right now is based entirely on joanna newsom lyrics, perhaps i will try posting here when i finish the next suit (if it's not too niche)

haha! pretty much as soon as i submitted my comment i went to look up more 1400s decks, since in the estensi deck, the lady on trump 21 is haloed in the same manner as justice, strength, and temperance (while the angels in other cards are not haloed)... which makes it seem like she must be prudence. but it seems like it's peculiar to this one deck.

so as much as i love a good swordfight i'll have to agree that there's no prudence in the marseille decks!

If you think it's too niche, once you have a certain amount of posts, you can ask Joan Marie to give you a personal CoT blog. I don't understand the lyrics of Joanna Newsom. So I'm quite impressed here !! She's hugely talented isn't she. Very haunting voice and music. But as she's often compared to Björk, I must admit that I'm more of the Björk tribe.

We can have a sword fight another time then. How about the most famous one, "is it the Fool's Journey or the Bateleur's Journey?" I know the answer of course. And have used my sword many times in this battle. It's a very mighty sword indeed - serves me well. My motto is always I shall fight on the beaches, I shall fight on the landing grounds, I shall fight in the fields and in the streets, I shall fight in the hills; I shall never surrender...


I'm taking things off topic here I realise. This is not a TdM thread and I always end up in that tradition regardless where I go. I'll let the thread take its proper course now.

[Ailsaek]

I'm taking things off topic here I realise. This is not a TdM thread and I always end up in that tradition regardless where I go. I'll let the thread take its proper course now.

That’s OK, all good discussions wander. And besides, in the wandering, interesting light is cast.

[Joan Marie]

That’s OK, all good discussions wander. And besides, in the wandering, interesting light is cast.

So true.

[arlecchino]

i have a question on trumps no. 1 and 8. even though there are some divinatory meanings it looks like most sources say to remove no. 1 and replace with 8 for a female querent, and the opposite for a male querent. in your experience do you stick to the base meaning of "querent" or have you developed a more abstract or universal way of using these cards?

also, what happens when you draw no. 1 and 8 both, especially close together? this happened to me in my first experimental "spread" - no. 8 then no. 5 then no. 1. i thought this could be male and female being kept apart through inertia, but i'm not sure that's a satisfying interpretation.

[stronglove]

some more resources on the book of thoth etteilla

http://etteillastrumps.blogspot.com/

https://tarotator.com/the-book-of-thoth ... -etteilla/



the original book t from samuel mathers (and harriet felkin) that jules talks about in her video is available from benebell wen’s website

https://benebellwen.files.wordpress.com ... t-1888.pdf

[arlecchino]

Grand Etteilla, Tarot Egyptien (ca. 1875-1899 "Etteilla I" https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10543181f <= the one Grimaud prints, I think

Grand Jeu de l’Oracle des Dames (ca. 1890-1900) "Etteilla III" https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b105431874 <= the one Lo Scarabeo titled "Book of Thoth Etteilla"

Jeu de la Princesse (ca. 1850-1875) https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b105431785 <= the one Lo Scarabeo titled "Tarots Egyptiens"

I've been comparing some different versions of Etteilla decks to the keywords by "Julia Orsini," and so far I think that this particular "Book of Thoth Etteilla Tarot" does the best job modifying the pictures to fit the keywords. For example, on no.5 the tetragrammation is replaced with actual quadrupedes, and no.16 while including the requisite angel seems mainly about the people arguing!